grades question!!!???? please advise

[twip25]

My BS is in electrical engineering, my GPA was 3.2. I took a graduate class in engineering 2 yrs ago and received an F. The subject matter was extremely difficult, the professor was an ass and honestly, I was burnt out from engineering. I cannot work in this cold dry field any more, I really despise engineering and I am burnt out.

I have since taken 4 undergraduate classes in political science and economics and received straight A's

I am applying for a masters degree in public policy, anthropology or sociology

My questions are:

1. Given that I received an F in an electrical engineering class (not a social science), but my social science grades are all A's, will the graduate admissions hold the F in a graduate engineering class against me? Logically it seems they should not.

2. How can I explain it in my college essay in a mature fashion?

thx

[Ferrero]

Address it forthrightly and firmly. Say you earned an F but it has no bearing on your contribution to the field of sociology or public policy or economics. Tell them if they exclude you based on that one course, they can go to hell. Don't fail to mention that the instructor was a vindictive prick. You want to make the ad. coms. feel guilty if they reject you.

[twip25]

Address it forthrightly and firmly. Say you earned an F but it has no bearing on your contribution to the field of sociology or public policy or economics. Tell them if they exclude you based on that one course, they can go to hell. Don't fail to mention that the instructor was a vindictive prick. You want to make the ad. coms. feel guilty if they reject you.

Huh? How can I make them feel guilty?

My prof was a retired military weirdo seeking revenge on the world for something in his childhood - he was cold mean pig. The people that did well were military weirdos with his same personality. When I took the class, I asked myself if I really want to stay in this field forever. Getting an F was an indication for me to get out NOW, and I am somewhat grateful, better to leave now than later.

Don't I need to show maturity and take responsibility for 'my' actions (actually the class was super ultra hard, I blame my ass prof cuz I studied my ass off and my bs engineering grades were good)?

[Nofia]

oh please, ignore Ferrero, hes a troll and his post was at best nothing more than a failed attempt at sarcasm.

Personally, I would never explain grades in my statement of purpose. The statement of purpose should be a very clear and concise essay about why you're pursuing graduate study in your chosen field. If you absolutely feel the need to address it, mention it only by discussing how engineering was not a good fit for you and then explain why your new area of study is--that will hopefully obliquely address the F without calling undue attention to it by pointing it out to the ad com.

[rising_star]

oh please, ignore Ferrero, hes a troll and his post was at best nothing more than a failed attempt at sarcasm.

Personally, I would never explain grades in my statement of purpose. The statement of purpose should be a very clear and concise essay about why you're pursuing graduate study in your chosen field. If you absolutely feel the need to address it, mention it only by discussing how engineering was not a good fit for you and then explain why your new area of study is--that will hopefully obliquely address the F without calling undue attention to it by pointing it out to the ad com.

I have to agree with Nofia. You shouldn't address your grades in your SOP. The SOP should be tightly focused on your background and what you want to study as a graduate student. Everything else shouldn't be in there. I wouldn't mention the grade unless asked.

[Ferrero]

Alluding to it only calls greater attention to it. Address it squarely and combatively. Doing so will communicate a level of seriousness. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out that there exist poor, petty teachers. You may note parenthetically that you don't expect to encounter -- or tolerate -- such childish behavior at your future institution.

[twip25]

Not to belabour the topic, but here is my problem:

the application states to compute the following and it states list the number of classes and their grades etc:

compute gpa for classes taken AFTER receiving bs degree (there is a table)

# of classes # credit hours

A 4 12

B

...

F 1 3 (they will see the F)

there for I cannot hide it, they will see my F in engineering in front of their eyes in the calculation.

How should I address it if not in my SOP? Should I add a separate letter in my application form? I am so worried and don't know how to handle this blemish on an otherwise good record. Life is not fair.....!

thx for the advise

[rising_star]

twip, if anything, address it in a separate letter. Your SOP should be focused on your preparation for the graduate program and the research that you'll do in it. Nothing negative at all.

[sosh]

Twip, I wouldn't worry about that F. Admissions people will be looking for evidence you can succeed in whatever program you end up going for... a poor grade in a grad electrical engineering class isn't likely to stand out as a warning sign, especially if it was a few years ago.

[anese]

Address it forthrightly and firmly. Say you earned an F but it has no bearing on your contribution to the field of sociology or public policy or economics. Tell them if they exclude you based on that one course, they can go to hell. Don't fail to mention that the instructor was a vindictive prick. You want to make the ad. coms. feel guilty if they reject you.

Obviously, none of this poster's advice should be taken seriously. This is the second post I've read where he or she gave such horrible advice that it would be sure to land someone's application in the dustbin.

OP- No matter the difficulty of the professor, I would never discuss a failed grade or poor performance as if it was the professor who was to blame. Think of how many times instructors have to deal with lazy students who blame them for their poor performance. No matter what his incompetence may have been, DO NOT ADDRESS IT, DO NOT BRING IT UP in any way shape or form. Take responsibility for the grade, don't make yourself into a target for rejection by mentioning the professor's poor behavior. I have already learned this the hard way: 9 times out of 10, it really was the student, and if it wasn't, the grad committee isn't likely to believe a sob story telling them otherwise.

Focus on your achievements, not on what went wrong in the past. That is the best way to move forward and impress a committee.

[Ferrero]

To the poster above, that approach will only make one look simply weak and defensive. Applying to grad school requires grit and determination, not milquetoast excuses. Throw a howitzer at the professor and move on with the rest of the SOP. I am incredulous you'd advise this applicant to go out of his/her way to diminish him/herself in any way.

[twip25]

ok...I will write a strong as possible and positive SOP and add a separate paper to explain my F (and blame myself for it).

Actually I took 2 graduate classes, in one I received a B, in the other a F, that is why I am so angry. If I was such a bad student I would have failed both graduate classes but I did well in one of them.

thx anese, nofia, rising_star and sosh for your advice.

[anese]

To the OP--honestly I wouldn't bring it up. Not unless I were asked specifically. Focus on your achievements and talent. If you do feel the need to mention it, it should only be a fleeting sentence that immediately segues into your excellent performance in the poli sci courses.

To the poster above, that approach will only make one look simply weak and defensive. Applying to grad school requires grit and determination, not milquetoast excuses. Throw a howitzer at the professor and move on with the rest of the SOP. I am incredulous you'd advise this applicant to go out of his/her way to diminish him/herself in any way.

There are ways to be honest without diminishing yourself. Honestly, I would think an applicant was irresponsible if they tried to "pass the buck" on a grade--especially a failure. In order for this to have happened, it had to be more than just a professor's incompetence...and if it WAS the professor's incompetence, then why wasn't the grade appealed? Who would the OP have to vouch for their credibility? You are putting your word, as a student, up against that of a (possibly tenured) professor! A person who has not only completed a doctorate, but has earned the right to teach at your previous institution! The very charge, while valid, could call into question your credibility, your maturity, and your ability to go on and do better in another graduate program. Please, by all means, encourage the OP to paint a big target sign on their backs!

Listen, it isn't that I don't think that terrible, malicious professors are not out there...but let us be honest with ourselves. Academia can be a scary, judgmental place, and by its very institutional nature caters to the hierarchy. In order to get in, you have to do your absolute best to sell yourself as someone that they want to work with. This means making yourself out to be the best candidate that you can, someone who isn't going to disrupt the system--challenge it perhaps, with your dedication and your grit, but not turn on your future professors and blame them for your shortcomings. Like it or not, if you start writing in your SOP that you aren't going to take any crap, they aren't going to be thinking "wow I respect this guy" they are going to be thinking "what kind of baggage does this person have that they couldn't LEAVE IT BEHIND...and start over again in our program?" You want to be concerned with selling yourself, and that means moving on from the past and not turn what was an incredibly ugly situation (regardless of whether the professor was at fault or not) into a dark cloud hanging over your future potential.

In short, do not mention it. And if asked, do not address the previous professor's character...simply say that you had a hard time, improved and are ready to move on. If you make that kind of charge in academia, you better be ready to put your money where your mouth is. You have no idea what that person's professional connections are and whose friends sit on committees!

[twip25]

sorry... not to belabour the thread but one last question.

anese you mentioned: 'In short, do not mention it. ', and you seem fairly confident in your answer

if an admissions committee looked at the F, wouldn't they say what is going on? Assume you received my application and you saw the F in a graduate class with no explanation, what would be your thoughts about the student?

Believe you me, I would love to NOT mention it cuz it draws attention to something bad. I am just worried they will jump to criticize unless an explanation is provided, that is why I feel the need to add a sentence or 2. I am just trying to weigh everything before I send my application.

thx

[anese]

sorry... not to belabour the thread but one last question.

anese you mentioned: 'In short, do not mention it. ', and you seem fairly confident in your answer

if an admissions committee looked at the F, wouldn't they say what is going on? Assume you received my application and you saw the F in a graduate class with no explanation, what would be your thoughts about the student?

Believe you me, I would love to NOT mention it cuz it draws attention to something bad. I am just worried they will jump to criticize unless an explanation is provided, that is why I feel the need to add a sentence or 2. I am just trying to weigh everything before I send my application.

thx

If you really feel the need, a sentence or two is fine. I had an F on my transcript. I even had a few Ds. Trust me when I say that I did not spend even a paragraph discussing it. I focused on crafting a kick-ass SoP that focused on all of my strengths, not my weaknesses. I'm just saying in the end, leave them with a positive and honest picture of you as a dedicated scholar.

[twip25]

update!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sent my application last week and took your advise. I was about to explain the bad grade and realized that explaining it would make me seem stuck in the past and bitter and professors want to know of your plans for future not dwelling in the past. I also think that despite a bad grade, I did not give up and settle to cmplacency will show the professors who I really am.

I specifically answered the questions they asked and they did not ask to explain any bad grades. Therefore, I focused on writing a good SOP (it took me many months to write that damn thing) and I had killer fantastic LOR (my professors from my relevent social science classes sent me copies). I also attached a resume flooded with volunteer work experience

We shall see what happens!!!!! wish me luck!!!!

[twip25]

HI I GOT IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

NO WAITLIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I GOT IN!!!!!!!

THANX EVERYONE!!! I FOCUSED ON THE POSITIVE AND WHAT I CAN DO NOT ON THE PAST

the past is finished my future is now!!!!!!!

I am so happy!

[Aceflyer]

Congrats!

[anese]

Congrats!