Random thoughts from the application process trenches...

[armyofbieber]

Hey,

I thought I'd lay down some of my feelings about the graduate school application process so far. At the moment, I'm still in the pre-application phase, with one more year left til my bachelor's.

I go to a big public research university in the Midwest, and my GPA is 3.2 but I'm trying to get it to at least 3.3 before December. No GRE yet (I'll be taking it in August). I have a year (and counting) of research experience in a systematics lab, conducting DNA study, and I'm hoping to be a co-author in 2 papers this year.

I have two recommendations pretty much set, and I'm trying to land a third one.

I'm looking at botany and entomology programs, and I'm hoping to apply to both, but I'm not sure if my LOR writers would see this as a sign of indecisiveness. The problem is that it's not too easy to find potential advisers working on interesting research.

In entomology my main research interests are systematics and evolution, in botany they are ethnobotany and medicinal/hallucinogenic plants, and systematics to a degree.

I've been trying to contact potential advisors, but I haven't had much luck. So far I've had 3 ignores, 3 people happen to be retiring shortly, 1 is moving to another school in an undesirable area, 1 replied quite some time ago and expressed interest in keeping touch, but I haven't heard from him since, and 2 knocked me out cold, saying that they won't accept any new students.

I'll probably apply to a couple of Ph.D. programs, but I'd expect to go the Master's route first because of my crappy GPA. Right now, I'm looking at U of New Mexico (MS, entomology), Tulane U (PhD, eeb-botany), CUNY Grad Center (PhD, plant sciences), U of Kansas (MA, botany), U of Georgia (MA, entomology) and UC Davis (MS, botany).

Any thoughts, ideas, tips, recommendations? All would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Teelee]

Check out the NRC ranking for plant science. There are several schools well known for botany.

[UBCbiograd2009]

If you have 2 co-authors by the time you apply (or at least those papers are in submission), research experience of 1+ years, good LORs and a good personal statement, then go for the PhD route. You have the aptitude and the work ethic for what it takes. Your GPA shouldn't be that much of a problem, so long as you have demonstrated that you can do the research. I got into a PhD program with a 3.01, but I had the paper, the experience, the LORs and the SOP.

I say go for the PhD if it's what you want to do in the end.

[Neuronista]

If you have 2 co-authors by the time you apply (or at least those papers are in submission), research experience of 1+ years, good LORs and a good personal statement, then go for the PhD route. You have the aptitude and the work ethic for what it takes. Your GPA shouldn't be that much of a problem, so long as you have demonstrated that you can do the research. I got into a PhD program with a 3.01, but I had the paper, the experience, the LORs and the SOP.

I say go for the PhD if it's what you want to do in the end.

Thank you so much! You gave me a lot of hope

I have an undergrad GPA of 3.30 and an MS with a GPA of 3.36 (both of which I consider to be on the low side) and wasn't able to get in anywhere this season. I thought maybe because of this. I do have research experience and good LORs. But I still think my app needs to be spiced up a little bit more for next time.

I have a question: I'm currently working on two papers. I don't know if any of them will be published by the time I apply in December, but I'm hoping that at least one of them will be. How do I indicate this in my application? Last time, I mentioned in the SOP that I'm preparing manuscripts for publication. Is that good enough? Or the adcoms won't take it unless it's published already? Should I mention this somewhere else in my app?

[armyofbieber]

You gave me a lot of hope, too, UBCbiograd2009. Hope that I'll at least get into a Master's program.

There are some big problems with my record, like C's from Gen Chem 2 and Calculus 1... So, I'm not off the hook by any means, and I'd hate to waste space on SOP to explain something that really isn't explainable, at least in my case.

So, what to do about uninterested professors? I guess there's not much to do. My interests are rather narrow, and each ignore or reject from a possible advisor slims my chances even more.

[Genomic Repairman]

Thank you so much! You gave me a lot of hope

I have an undergrad GPA of 3.30 and an MS with a GPA of 3.36 (both of which I consider to be on the low side) and wasn't able to get in anywhere this season. I thought maybe because of this. I do have research experience and good LORs. But I still think my app needs to be spiced up a little bit more for next time.

I have a question: I'm currently working on two papers. I don't know if any of them will be published by the time I apply in December, but I'm hoping that at least one of them will be. How do I indicate this in my application? Last time, I mentioned in the SOP that I'm preparing manuscripts for publication. Is that good enough? Or the adcoms won't take it unless it's published already? Should I mention this somewhere else in my app?

And you didn't get into anything? Oh lady we need to chat, something must have gone wrong somewhere (interview faux pas, LOR writer might have tossed you under the bus or some other reason). MS and 2 papers in preparation that should put you over the damn hump.

[UBCbiograd2009]

Thank you so much! You gave me a lot of hope

I have an undergrad GPA of 3.30 and an MS with a GPA of 3.36 (both of which I consider to be on the low side) and wasn't able to get in anywhere this season. I thought maybe because of this. I do have research experience and good LORs. But I still think my app needs to be spiced up a little bit more for next time.

I have a question: I'm currently working on two papers. I don't know if any of them will be published by the time I apply in December, but I'm hoping that at least one of them will be. How do I indicate this in my application? Last time, I mentioned in the SOP that I'm preparing manuscripts for publication. Is that good enough? Or the adcoms won't take it unless it's published already? Should I mention this somewhere else in my app?

First off, I'm sorry to hear and am surprised that you weren't accepted anywhere. How you weren't accepted anywhere is beyond belief. I agree with the poster above, maybe something was amiss with your application and perhaps you should e-mail the departments you applied to and the advisers and ask what weaknesses you may have had.

Secondly, I must admit that one of the writers of my LORs is very, very well known in his field and another one of my writers ran into two of the 5 profs who I wished to work for at a conference and talked me up. I think these connections helped me get accepted.

Lastly, when I applied, the paper I co-authored wasn't accepted yet. What I did was mention in my SOP that I had submitted a paper. I noted the title and journal publication as well. Funny thing was that the paper was rejected, so we submitted it to another journal and then it was accepted. As soon as it was accepted, I wrote in to all my potential advisers and the grad offices of the schools I applied to so that they could make a note of this.

I think when I mentioned to my potential advisers that I had a paper in submission, their interest was piqued and they encouraged me to apply. Of course having a paper in submission a huge step, having one published is even better. Either way, adcoms should realize that people (usually) don't submit a shitty paper and that you were involved in the science somehow. Your lab supervisor should note that on you LOR. I suggest you have a meeting with him/her to make sure you cover all the points you wish him/her to write on your LOR.

Edited April 28, 2011 by UBCbiograd2009

[UBCbiograd2009]

You gave me a lot of hope, too, UBCbiograd2009. Hope that I'll at least get into a Master's program.

There are some big problems with my record, like C's from Gen Chem 2 and Calculus 1... So, I'm not off the hook by any means, and I'd hate to waste space on SOP to explain something that really isn't explainable, at least in my case.

So, what to do about uninterested professors? I guess there's not much to do. My interests are rather narrow, and each ignore or reject from a possible advisor slims my chances even more.

To respond to your comment about not wasting space on your SOP for low grades, I absolutely agree. But there is nothing stopping you from writing an Addendum that can go right after the body of your SOP. I was told by all the grad students in the lab I worked for that an SOP should highlight only the positives about your past, the reasons/inspirations you're choosing to go to grad school and what your goals are for the future. The addendum can briefly explain why you received low grades and what you did to improve and how you improved (e.g. does your transcript show an upward trend?).

[Neuronista]

And you didn't get into anything? Oh lady we need to chat, something must have gone wrong somewhere (interview faux pas, LOR writer might have tossed you under the bus or some other reason). MS and 2 papers in preparation that should put you over the damn hump.

Thank you for your concern

Well, my GRE scores weren't anything stellar either (600s), so that might be a factor too. I'm thinking I should retake it for next time.

I thought my interviews went well. In fact, one of my interviewers gave me so much hope that I'll get in that I was really surprised when I was rejected over a one and half months later. He was like you made it up to a very narrow list of finalist applicants and we're planning to take in more grad students this year etc etc.

My LOR writers are my MS advisors and my undergrad advisor (who happens to be my current boss to; I'm currently an RA in his lab).

It just seems 2011 is not my year.

What would you suggest?

[Neuronista]

First off, I'm sorry to hear and am surprised that you weren't accepted anywhere. How you weren't accepted anywhere is beyond belief. I agree with the poster above, maybe something was amiss with your application and perhaps you should e-mail the departments you applied to and the advisers and ask what weaknesses you may have had.

Secondly, I must admit that one of the writers of my LORs is very, very well known in his field and another one of my writers ran into two of the 5 profs who I wished to work for at a conference and talked me up. I think these connections helped me get accepted.

You people gave me back my confidence!

I am actually considering contacting the programs to ask them how can I improve my application for next year.

Lastly, when I applied, the paper I co-authored wasn't accepted yet. What I did was mention in my SOP that I had submitted a paper. I noted the title and journal publication as well. Funny thing was that the paper was rejected, so we submitted it to another journal and then it was accepted. As soon as it was accepted, I wrote in to all my potential advisers and the grad offices of the schools I applied to so that they could make a note of this.

I think when I mentioned to my potential advisers that I had a paper in submission, their interest was piqued and they encouraged me to apply. Of course having a paper in submission a huge step, having one published is even better. Either way, adcoms should realize that people (usually) don't submit a shitty paper and that you were involved in the science somehow. Your lab supervisor should note that on you LOR. I suggest you have a meeting with him/her to make sure you cover all the points you wish him/her to write on your LOR.

Thank you. I was wondering whether I could send such follow-up e-mails to the programs to inform them of any updates (paper published or new lab appointment). So that seems fine then

One of my LOR writers (my MS advisor and mentor), offered to sit with me if I get rejected from the last school I'm waiting on (he still has hope!) and we go over my entire application package again (including my SOP and CV) to see what we can do to improve it.

Let's just hope for the best!