Draper Program at NYU

[Ballardesque]

Hey all, I'm new to the forum, and, having done a little wandering around the English thread, I joined in the hopes that someone out there could help with some information. I was rejected by NYU's English PhD program about a month ago, and last week I received an invitation to apply to the Draper Program--what appears to be a pretty interesting interdisciplinary/humanities thing at NYU. (From what little I could gather, last round applicants who are ultimately rejected have their info forwarded to Draper). It's actually a bit eerie how accurately they assessed my potential interest in the program, based on my SOP (I'm into social theory and science studies, within the rubric of literature). I'm interested, but I live in California, and moving out to NYC would represent a significant effort to do an expensive MA, preparatory to reapplying (all my app's were rejected this year, like a lot of other people's). I could shoulder the debt, and my wife is a native New Yorker, but I don't want to go unless it can serve the dual purpose of acting as a form of entree once I start looking at PhD's again.

My ultimate question is then a request for information regarding the program. I'm aware of the rhetoric surrounding interdisciplinary degrees and the sense that they exist solely to create revenue for universities; it's primarily why I'm asking for info specific to the program, rather than just the obvious criticism of institutional greed. Has anyone here gone through Draper, or known someone who has? Or, perhaps, does anyone know what the upward mobility of past students is like, and where they end up? My own interests are primarily theoretical, and something like this could provide me with a good footing in the direction I started going in during my upper divisions. But it has to provide an equal amount of utility for the chaos it would put my family through. Thanks for any help.

[jujuliet]

One of my friends from undergrad is currently in the Draper program. If you want, you can PM me, and I'll give you her contact info.

[Ballardesque]

I don't have any personal experience with Draper program, but when I applied to grad school the first time around (as an American Studies PhD applicant), I was also referred to there, so I thought I'd add my two cents.

I asked around and ultimately opted out because of the expense and because my advisers suggested that I try again for entry into a PhD program. At the time (2009), one of my professors told me that an upside to the Draper program would be that I would have access to some good faculty members while adding depth to my PhD application. On the downside, he told me that (at the time), it wasn't a very established program (though, of course, that doesn't mean it isn't good) and that it was bit "tenuous" (he believed it to be staffed by primarly post-doc and non-tenured faculty, which isn't a bad thing, he said, but it wasn't a great thing either.) And, of course, the cost.

Not sure if this helps, but good luck making your decision!

Thanks for the reply. I would only add that, from what I can tell by looking at class schedules past and present, actual NYU faculty from a variety of different departments are involved (one class available this Spring is being taught by Avital Ronell). Students are also allowed to take half their units outside the program. In a lot of ways it really looks like an MA version of Stanford's MTL program, which is currently at the top of my list, next round.

[lyonessrampant]

Check out the threat of U of Chicago's MAPH program. Similar pros and cons and similarly designed program. I did the UC MAPH program, so you can PM me if you have questions, but in summary--cons: can be seen as a cash cow/feeder program by other institutions (partly true), can be treated as a second-class citizen compared to Ph.D. folks (partly true), don't get teaching experience so don't have that to put on CV while other MA in hand applicants do, only a year so you have to cram a lot in fast and hit the ground running (I don't know if NYU is only a year), potentially big cohort so you have to be proactice and standout, oh yeah and the money; pros: access to world-class faculty, access to world-class research resources, rewarding and challenging courses, rewards for proactive/assertive students to distinguish themselves in the midst of a lot of people.

[Ballardesque]

Check out the threat of U of Chicago's MAPH program. Similar pros and cons and similarly designed program. I did the UC MAPH program, so you can PM me if you have questions, but in summary--cons: can be seen as a cash cow/feeder program by other institutions (partly true), can be treated as a second-class citizen compared to Ph.D. folks (partly true), don't get teaching experience so don't have that to put on CV while other MA in hand applicants do, only a year so you have to cram a lot in fast and hit the ground running (I don't know if NYU is only a year), potentially big cohort so you have to be proactice and standout, oh yeah and the money; pros: access to world-class faculty, access to world-class research resources, rewarding and challenging courses, rewards for proactive/assertive students to distinguish themselves in the midst of a lot of people.

Thanks a lot. That confirms a lot of my own suspicions. I was wondering what your sense of how doing an interdisciplinary MA is going to propel you to the next level?

[lyonessrampant]

Hi, sorry, I meant thread not threat in my previous post! If NYU is like UC, you pick almost all your own classes, so I took almost all of my nine classes in my major and secondary areas (early modern and late Medieval) so I got lots of prep and have presented papers from classes at conferences and had a publication, BUT again you have to be pretty independent and forward thinking to make that work for you. Overall, I had an AMAZING time at UC's MAPH program, and I know people both like me and very much the opposite of me. I got partial funding, which helped, but I more than doubled my undergrad debt nonetheless As long as you know what you're going in for and what YOU have to do to make this a great experience, I think you can be happy, but it isn't for everyone. Best of luck with your decision! Also, please excuse typos as I'm writing this on my touchscreen phone keyboard.

[Ballardesque]

Hi, sorry, I meant thread not threat in my previous post! If NYU is like UC, you pick almost all your own classes, so I took almost all of my nine classes in my major and secondary areas (early modern and late Medieval) so I got lots of prep and have presented papers from classes at conferences and had a publication, BUT again you have to be pretty independent and forward thinking to make that work for you. Overall, I had an AMAZING time at UC's MAPH program, and I know people both like me and very much the opposite of me. I got partial funding, which helped, but I more than doubled my undergrad debt nonetheless As long as you know what you're going in for and what YOU have to do to make this a great experience, I think you can be happy, but it isn't for everyone. Best of luck with your decision! Also, please excuse typos as I'm writing this on my touchscreen phone keyboard.

That sounds great. Draper really looks good to me for similar reasons--what appears to be a good mix of independence and structure I would have expected anyway. I did my undergrad at UCB, and had the opportunity to move between English, Rhetoric, Anthro, Linguistics, etc., and that really worked for me, although the global nature of my interests I think is going to make a PhD in 'English' a harder fit. Either way, thanks for the info and the support. I wish I had you guys as a resource during my first round of applications.

[lyonessrampant]

Best of luck!!! I really do think you can make these type of programs work for you. They did for me and three of my best friends (one of whom had a choice betwen NYU and Columbia law, one who had a choice between CUNY and UTA, and one on whom had a choice between Brown and Cornell, and, well, me, who had a choice between numerous state programs. .. don't wait so long until you're my age!!! I recommened this based on my feedback from Princeon, UC, and UPenn when I was younger). Anywho, be aggressive and make the most of what you want from your MA, and then be more aggressive and more proactive when applying for your Ph.D., but know that local schools and your alma mater will likely be prejudiced against you for diversity's purposes, so apply broadly, really broadly. I would encoraage that for everyone.

[wreckofthehope]

I know someone who is just finishing up their thesis in the Draper Program and by all accounts has really found it worthwhile. I would think that its benefits come largely from it functioning as a space of facilitation for students who have a clear goal and the motivation to make the most of the facilities/faculty that are made available. I'm pretty sure that the same benefits could be achieved for a lot less money by other routes, but you would probably have to work a lot harder to access them. My friend has had some very good Ph.D offers this application season (in another Humanistic dicsipline), but I don't know how much of their success can be attributed to the program and how much to their own self-motivation to succeed...

Random question:

Is your username in reference to J.G. Ballard? He's my favourite writer - I just wrote my M.A. thesis on his 60's eco-catastrophe novels!

Hey all, I'm new to the forum, and, having done a little wandering around the English thread, I joined in the hopes that someone out there could help with some information. I was rejected by NYU's English PhD program about a month ago, and last week I received an invitation to apply to the Draper Program--what appears to be a pretty interesting interdisciplinary/humanities thing at NYU. (From what little I could gather, last round applicants who are ultimately rejected have their info forwarded to Draper). It's actually a bit eerie how accurately they assessed my potential interest in the program, based on my SOP (I'm into social theory and science studies, within the rubric of literature). I'm interested, but I live in California, and moving out to NYC would represent a significant effort to do an expensive MA, preparatory to reapplying (all my app's were rejected this year, like a lot of other people's). I could shoulder the debt, and my wife is a native New Yorker, but I don't want to go unless it can serve the dual purpose of acting as a form of entree once I start looking at PhD's again.

My ultimate question is then a request for information regarding the program. I'm aware of the rhetoric surrounding interdisciplinary degrees and the sense that they exist solely to create revenue for universities; it's primarily why I'm asking for info specific to the program, rather than just the obvious criticism of institutional greed. Has anyone here gone through Draper, or known someone who has? Or, perhaps, does anyone know what the upward mobility of past students is like, and where they end up? My own interests are primarily theoretical, and something like this could provide me with a good footing in the direction I started going in during my upper divisions. But it has to provide an equal amount of utility for the chaos it would put my family through. Thanks for any help.

[Ballardesque]

I know someone who is just finishing up their thesis in the Draper Program and by all accounts has really found it worthwhile. I would think that its benefits come largely from it functioning as a space of facilitation for students who have a clear goal and the motivation to make the most of the facilities/faculty that are made available. I'm pretty sure that the same benefits could be achieved for a lot less money by other routes, but you would probably have to work a lot harder to access them. My friend has had some very good Ph.D offers this application season (in another Humanistic dicsipline), but I don't know how much of their success can be attributed to the program and how much to their own self-motivation to succeed...

Random question:

Is your username in reference to J.G. Ballard? He's my favourite writer - I just wrote my M.A. thesis on his 60's eco-catastrophe novels!

Hey Wreck, guilty as charged. My interests are based on technology's role in the creation of deviant social persona and also its punishment/restraint. So, yeah, a lot of my ideas find their energy in a Foucauldian interpretation of Ballard's later work (Concrete Island, Highrise, Millennium People, etc). Ballard, and PK DIck also, had a knack for vocalizing late Modern paranoia in a way that I think is really fruitful, yet criminally overlooked in the academy. Sounds like we're working on the same side of the street!

[wreckofthehope]

Hey Wreck, guilty as charged. My interests are based on technology's role in the creation of deviant social persona and also its punishment/restraint. So, yeah, a lot of my ideas find their energy in a Foucauldian interpretation of Ballard's later work (Concrete Island, Highrise, Millennium People, etc). Ballard, and PK DIck also, had a knack for vocalizing late Modern paranoia in a way that I think is really fruitful, yet criminally overlooked in the academy. Sounds like we're working on the same side of the street!

Nice! I was just re-reading "Of Other Spaces" and Discipline and Punish this week. I'm interested in literature's role in shaping our response to certain landscapes as sites of alienation and exile.

[Ballardesque]

Nice! I was just re-reading "Of Other Spaces" and Discipline and Punish this week. I'm interested in literature's role in shaping our response to certain landscapes as sites of alienation and exile.

Ah, heterotopias... Have you read de Certeau? He has a pretty novel approach to occupied space and power manipulation as a response to both Foucault and Bourdieu, although there's a lot to disagree with, imo.

[seaguy]

If you still have any questions, I am just finishing up at Draper, and I would be happy to let you know more about the program.

[Ballardesque]

If you still have any questions, I am just finishing up at Draper, and I would be happy to let you know more about the program.

Excellent. I'm curious how you perceive the utility of the degree, in terms of opening doors to the next phase of your academic endeavors. While the program looks a perfect fit for my interests, for the money, it really needs to operate in this way for me, creating opportunities in what increasingly looks like the new normal in an MA being yet another qualification for entry into a PhD.