Security clearance

[Doubleshott]

Hello all, long time lurker, third time poster

Hoping this question gets a little more of a response than my last one, but here goes the background:

So someone mentioned on another thread that they knew someone with an internship at the CIA, so this got me thinking and I in turn looked at its website and the FBI's regarding hiring and even internships for graduates. Intelligence analysis and/or security are two fields I've now made some serious moves to get involved with. Similarly, I would consider not going down the public/gov. route and would love to

be involved in the private sector. However, while many of you take this field and jobs for granted I appear to have a massive problem. I am not a U.S. Citizen and right now have neither years under my belt/nor sufficient qualifications to be fast tracked. Furthermore, I dont appear likely to get it for many years, if at all (save naturalization). As it stands, I am an Irish citizen (more so due to circumstances outside my own control i.e. my parents lack of foresight), while I could possibly be eligible to work for the UK version of things (I was born, grew up there and my father is dual British-Irish) it seems that I am completely unable to work in the gov. sector of security/intelligence right now. Also, to top of this impasse it seems that a lot of the private sector require security clearance with more 'sensitive' modern sources/intel and again im worried that I will be judged unclearable and thus, nearly unemployable. While I have nothing but benevolent ties to the US through friends, family, sports etc etc it seems to amount to squat as citizenship seems sine que non, without it one seems automatically suspect and unwelcome

So the question: Can anyone with either sufficient experience/knowledge of this area of employment or field please shed some light on this situation/ Does anybody have any similar experience with this sort of thing?

Cheers

[Damis]

Hello all, long time lurker, third time poster

Hoping this question gets a little more of a response than my last one, but here goes the background:

So someone mentioned on another thread that they knew someone with an internship at the CIA, so this got me thinking and I in turn looked at its website and the FBI's regarding hiring and even internships for graduates. Intelligence analysis and/or security are two fields I've now made some serious moves to get involved with. Similarly, I would consider not going down the public/gov. route and would love to

be involved in the private sector. However, while many of you take this field and jobs for granted I appear to have a massive problem. I am not a U.S. Citizen and right now have neither years under my belt/nor sufficient qualifications to be fast tracked. Furthermore, I dont appear likely to get it for many years, if at all (save naturalization). As it stands, I am an Irish citizen (more so due to circumstances outside my own control i.e. my parents lack of foresight), while I could possibly be eligible to work for the UK version of things (I was born, grew up there and my father is dual British-Irish) it seems that I am completely unable to work in the gov. sector of security/intelligence right now. Also, to top of this impasse it seems that a lot of the private sector require security clearance with more 'sensitive' modern sources/intel and again im worried that I will be judged unclearable and thus, nearly unemployable. While I have nothing but benevolent ties to the US through friends, family, sports etc etc it seems to amount to squat as citizenship seems sine que non, without it one seems automatically suspect and unwelcome

So the question: Can anyone with either sufficient experience/knowledge of this area of employment or field please shed some light on this situation/ Does anybody have any similar experience with this sort of thing?

Cheers

I'm sorry, but it's going to be essentially impossible to gain clearance:

INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY SECURITY CLEARANCES

For first- and second-generation immigrants, employment with the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC) is often out of reach. This is because the disqualifying condition created by the existence of non-U.S. citizen immediate family members can not be mitigated for access eligibility to Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) as it can for collateral clearances. And SCI access eligibility is almost always a requirement for IC employment. This obstacle can only be overcome with a “waiver” from a Senior Official of the Intelligence Community. This risk avoidance policy within the IC may soon change due to the critical need for people with special knowledge of foreign languages and cultures. For more than a year the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) has repeatedly stressed the need to break down the IC security clearance and employment barriers for first- and second-generation immigrants. In testimony before congress on security clearance reform in February 2008 the Assistant Deputy DNI for Security stated:

“Additionally modifications to IC hiring policies are being made to allow for the hiring of first and second generation, or heritage, American candidates. . . . We fully expect the near-term outcome of this DNI-level policy change to result in more applications from heritage Americans and ultimately a more robust mission capability within the IC.”

The DNI has had the authority to change policy for SCI access throughout the IC. But institutional changes take time and are not often attainable by fiat alone. Recently Executive Order 13467, as part of a major clearance reform effort, expanded the DNI’s authority to change the standards for all federal security clearances. This reform effort may provide the impetus needed to change the security standards for foreign influence.

http://www.clearancejobs.com/news.php?articleID=54

Unless something new has occurred in the past year. It's a crap situation, really. That SCI eligibility is what would hold you up. There are plenty of folks that only have Secret/Top-Secret...but they're all eligible to undergo the process in trying to secure SCI. The intelligence community needs more individuals with specialized skill, but shot themselves in the foot with stuff like this. From their perspective, though, they have to be ultra skeptical. As the article attests to, they are in the process of trying to work something else out. In the mean time, so many good folks fall through the cracks.

[Doubleshott]

Wow, I mean I was prepared for the bad news but this is still quite a blow.

Do you think it is similar enough situation for the private sector?

Reading through the comments below that article it seems that some of the ties are so so minimal (almost laughabley so) and yet people get turned away/uncleared

Its a bizarre situation alright, it seems like such a sweeping blanket rule that is likely to omit so many well qualified people. Being irish and of British origins I figured I was well inside the 'club' of trustworthy origins and almost boringly unaffiliated with anything vaguely controversial...

Edited April 28, 2011 by Doubleshott

[Damis]

Gosh I'm sorry.

If you're looking into private intelligence, it's likely going to be the same story. Every clearance goes through some type of governmental channel. So even though you often find private contractors completing the investigations, they are following protocol provided by the U.S. Federal government.

As intimated in the article, if you're able to find someone to move you through the process manually, your problems are abated. You have it a lot easier, as an Irish citizen, in this regard than...say...someone from Pakistan or Afghanistan. Heck, I've even been to conferences wherein the U.K. and U.S. collaborated on analytic methodologies together (4 Eyes). As you mentioned, the process is not very flexible at all...and in many cases quite antiquated.

Best of luck in figuring this thing out. Sorry I could not give any good news. Perhaps someone (there are a lot of former military folks...with current clearances) can provide more insight. I received my clearance last Summer...and it expired with the end of my internship.

[Doubleshott]

Well this appears to be quite a lot of bad news for just one evening, this issue is so glaringly obvious that I didn't even fathom it before now. However before i conclude anything I am going go to look down a few more avenues, for instance there's a guy in my schools poli sci dept that I know happened to work for RAND a number of years ago and might at least know some more about full-time employment procedures and if they have means of doing something in a cases like this.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.

Stephen

Edited April 28, 2011 by Doubleshott

[flyers29]

You're going to need to be a citizen--that's non-negotiable. However, it's not quite true that you're disqualified by being a naturalized citizen (or furthermore, being a natural-born citizen with a foreign parent).

[HandsomeNerd]

+1 for citizenship being non-negotiable.

while i admittedly don't know much about private intelligence firms, i was always under the impression that they clearances they required were adjudicated by some federal agency and the personnel they hired were former members of the IC from the military or federal govt.

[margrett]

Unless you can approach the U.S. security/intelligence community with some unbelievably rare skill as a non-citizen (like you're fluent in a critical foreign language--Tamil, Pashto, Urdu, Dari, etc. or your background is in the hard sciences a.k.a you're a nuclear engineer or something along those lines), then you're not likely to get much interest from the U.S.

But, if you eventually do go to work for the British government, whether you get to work with U.S. government employees really depends on the particular agency you work for. Read up on the different types of intelligence specializations out there (HUMNT, SIGINT, MASINT, OSINT, etc.) and figure out whether you'd be interested in doing something other than HUMINT (which is what CIA does). If so, I think your chances to work in the U.S./for the U.S. would be better. Read up on the Cambridge Five and you'll see that there's a history of tension between the U.S. and U.K. HUMINT communities regarding espionage. But other U.K. agencies may have better working relationships with the U.S.

Bottom line: If you want to do it, it would take several years and you'd have to acquire the right skills and experience. There are intelligence community employees who come from all over. They've renounced dual citizenship or become naturalized citizens in order to be U.S. citizens and get their intel jobs. But you can't just walk in the door.

[Doubleshott]

Unless you can approach the U.S. security/intelligence community with some unbelievably rare skill as a non-citizen (like you're fluent in a critical foreign language--Tamil, Pashto, Urdu, Dari, etc. or your background is in the hard sciences a.k.a you're a nuclear engineer or something along those lines), then you're not likely to get much interest from the U.S.

But, if you eventually do go to work for the British government, whether you get to work with U.S. government employees really depends on the particular agency you work for. Read up on the different types of intelligence specializations out there (HUMNT, SIGINT, MASINT, OSINT, etc.) and figure out whether you'd be interested in doing something other than HUMINT (which is what CIA does). If so, I think your chances to work in the U.S./for the U.S. would be better. Read up on the Cambridge Five and you'll see that there's a history of tension between the U.S. and U.K. HUMINT communities regarding espionage. But other U.K. agencies may have better working relationships with the U.S.

Bottom line: If you want to do it, it would take several years and you'd have to acquire the right skills and experience. There are intelligence community employees who come from all over. They've renounced dual citizenship or become naturalized citizens in order to be U.S. citizens and get their intel jobs. But you can't just walk in the door.

The HUMINT area is the area I'll have the most interest and qualifications with to date. This all started with it too, I wrote my senior thesis on the interrogation of Malayan communist POWs, the information gleaned and its use in propaganda ops during the Malayan Emergency. As a result it is the area I have the most pull towards. I'll keep looking Into it I guess. Maybe I can avoid the more risque elements that require clearance.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Doubleshott

[flyers29]

Just a thought--why not get some experience with the British institutions for a few years then move on to private firms? Unfortunately it's very tough to jump into private firms without any experience.

[beaverish]

Wow, I mean I was prepared for the bad news but this is still quite a blow.

Do you think it is similar enough situation for the private sector?

Its a bizarre situation alright, it seems like such a sweeping blanket rule that is likely to omit so many well qualified people. Being irish and of British origins I figured I was well inside the 'club' of trustworthy origins and almost boringly unaffiliated with anything vaguely controversial...

Edited April 30, 2011 by beaverish

[JAubrey]

Hate to say it, but there is literally no way you will get clearance being a non-citizen. Having worked in both the DoD and a PMC, everyone we had were all US Citizens, with the exception that some ex-military operators in the PMC were foreign nationals but again they were ex-military in their country and were working security assignments in Iraq and Afghan.

[bmb7z]

Citizenship is required, though I work with plenty of naturalized folks who have clearance. The rationale is that to be privy to U.S. government secrets, you have to have no conflict of interest. Of those naturalized citizens who have clearance, many have specific skills which make them "integral" to the function of government. For example, solid backgrounds in nuclear issues, science and technology, or military matters. They come from all over -- Pakistan, India, Australia, the UK, Ireland, Germany, Jordan, etc., so there is no specific region that automatically disqualifies you. However, you will have to forfeit citizenship in other nations - dual citizens are generally denied, as it indicates split loyalties. Also, it is easiest to get initial clearance through private contractors (as the hiring process is generally speedier) and then to transition to the Fed if you are so inclined.