PhD in political scince with engineering background

[Rohit1979]

Hello Everyone,

I need little help regarding PhD programs in political science.

I have a bachelor and masters degree in Civil Engineering from Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur (IITK), which happens to be the top tier engineering school in Asia. Driven solely by my passion for political science I have decided to pursue a doctoral level course in political science or political economy. I would mostly be focusing around comparative politics, dynamics of political organizations, public choice theories, polling behaviors and patterns.

Few relevant points about my background:

(1) B.Tech and M.Tech from IIT Kanpur (ranks in top 40 in engineering and technology sections of almost all the surveys).

(2) GPA around 3.60.

(3) Average or below average grades in maths course (But the competition in IITs are very intense. Even average grades from IIT are considered far better than excellent grades from some other universities.)

(4) GRE: 800 Q and 680 V

(5) No academic or research experience in any field of social science.

(6) Around 4 years of solid practical experience in active politics of India. I worked full time for an aspiring national political party of India for around 4 years. My job centered around designing and coordinating election campaign strategies. I did pretty well as testified by the quantum of votes garnered by the candidates for whom I designed election campaigns.

(7) I am not in touch with my graduate school, therefore very remote possibility of getting academic recommendations. Though I can manage professional references.

Here are my questions:

(1) What are my odds in top tier US universities like Princeton, Stanford, WashU and Yale.

(2) My intention is to pursue a research and teaching career post doctorate. What are my chances to have a successful research and teaching career if graduate from low ranked university.

(3) Almost every school requires a writing sample. Some of them even insist it to be an extract from your masters thesis. Clearly I lack this requirement. Is there a way to make up for this shortcoming. How significant role does this part play in deciding one's candidature.

Thanks in advance,

Rohit Verma

[Seeking]

I wish you were applying for a Civil Engineering PhD in top US universities.

I don't know how the top universities would view practical political experience. Academic writings and references go a long way in a PhD application. Besides, in your SOP you need to justify how you relate your political Science interest to your past training and your future goals. See if you can write a strong SOP for Political Science.

If you are really interested in Political Science and not in Civil Engineering, I think the best course of action would be to enroll for an MA in Political Science at a well-known university - either in Delhi or in the US. But beware that US Masters programmes don't have much funding. You may also try a UK university.

During this period, try to present conference papers and publish some research articles in refereed journals. With this experience, a top US university is more likely to accept you.

A second option for you is to apply for a PhD in Science Policy in the US universities. Try to present some conference papers and if possible, get a paper accepted for publication in Science Policy. With your Engineering background and papers in Science Policy, you may be able to argue your case for a PhD application in Science Policy.

A third option is to present conference papers and if possible, get a paper accepted for publication in the field of Political Science. But there is not much time left for this and the universities may feel you don't have a pre-PhD university degree in Political Science or in a related field.

You can see which of these options suit you.

[wtncffts]

Interesting. I applaud your interest in political science and seem to have some notion of what you want to study, which is good. However, I have to say it's really going to work against you that you've done no academic work in the social sciences at all. It's also important, I think, to get academic references. In terms of the writing sample, it will be important, and if it's a requirement, that's exactly what it is: required. Fortunately, there's an easy way to solve this problem, which is to write something! It's going to be what your academic life will entail, you should have experience with it. Usually one gets a lot of practice through taking poli sci and other writing-intensive courses through undergrad. If you want to enter a PhD program in political science, it is imperative to show that you can write.

Frankly, I don't think your chances at the top tier of schools is great; the competitiveness of the application process is staggering and many highly qualified candidates are rejected. Your seeming passion for poli sci is great, but your preparation and credentials are not particularly attractive to an adcomm, I'd think. Perhaps there are ways you can bolster your academic credentials: take some poli sci courses, from which you could get recommendations and writing experience.

Good luck.

Edited May 5, 2011 by wtncffts

[Rohit1979]

More or less I got the same feed back from people here.

Universities over here do not have a provision of allowing students to take courses outside the regular degree programs. So taking up some Political Science courses is ruled out. Some universities offer some short term certificate kind of programs. But they are mostly in "more" professional courses like financial engineering. The only option left is to associate myself with some reputed political science professor and work on a research paper.

Will my chances improve significantly if I succeed in getting a paper published?

Can you suggest some other field of study that has political science concentration or at-least borders with political science?

What chances do I have on fields like public policy?

What are the long term prospects in teaching or research if I obtain the doctoral degree from not so reputed university, say below 30-35 rank?

Thanks in advance

Rohit Verma

[alphazeta]

Your chances without either political science experience or academic recommendations are near zero (IMHO). It sounds like you have the basic stats to be competitive for good programs in the future, though, so I would highly recommend a masters degree in political science or public policy.

I think you would have a competitive chance at public policy programs in the US. They will value your practical experience and won't hold your lack of academic background against you. Depending on your financials, you could try for admission at top public policy programs, but you can also apply to some second-tier programs where merit scholarships may be available. In addition to strictly public policy programs, you might also consider some IR or area studies programs.

Another good option would be a British taught masters degree in political science. Generally, those courses last only one year and are somewhat cheaper than American programs. Several are also specifically designed for students entering without a background in the field. I'd particularly consider an MSc from LSE in Comparative Politics (link).

[Rohit1979]

Your chances without either political science experience or academic recommendations are near zero (IMHO). It sounds like you have the basic stats to be competitive for good programs in the future, though, so I would highly recommend a masters degree in political science or public policy.

Thanks for the valuable inputs. I fully appreciate the fact that my lack of academic experience in political science is the biggest impediment. And I am definitely considering taking up some masters program first then proceed to doctoral level program. But still I am befuddled by the fact that some of the top economics and finance departments accept applicants from engineering and mathematics background with no relevant academic experience. Though both economics and finance has significant quantitative part but they are still totally different fields of study!

[Penelope Higgins]

The biggest obstacle you face is not the lack of academic experience in political science, but the lack of academic letters. Letters from scholars in any discipline that can attest to your intellectual ability and motivation are necessary for admission to any PhD program. Is there any way you can contact your former teachers to ask for letters? At least here in the US, my colleagues and I often get such requests from students with whom we have lost touch for years - it may take a bit of effort and a bit of work to remind the teachers who you are and how well you did in their classes, but it is going to be absolutely necessary for your application to have any chance at all.

Thanks for the valuable inputs. I fully appreciate the fact that my lack of academic experience in political science is the biggest impediment. And I am definitely considering taking up some masters program first then proceed to doctoral level program. But still I am befuddled by the fact that some of the top economics and finance departments accept applicants from engineering and mathematics background with no relevant academic experience. Though both economics and finance has significant quantitative part but they are still totally different fields of study!

[GopherGrad]

You don't need political science course work, but your personal statement will be better if it speaks in terms political scientists use.

Your school might not be familiar to admissions committee members and they may not be sure how much to trust your achievement there.

Academic letters of recommendation are really important.

I think these are the three biggest challenges you face. It's not clear to me how you solve these issues; you can read articles on the topics that interest you and you can contact old professors. One way to address them all, although expensive and time consuming, is to sit for a Master's degree at a school well known in your target market.

[Rohit1979]

If recommendations from my previous university professors can save me the trouble of going through a masters program, then definitely it is worth the effort.

What if I associate myself with some ongoing research at some decent social science institute and convince the professor to support my application. If my association is for a short span I may not be able to publish, but at-least I will have a relevant recommendation. How will that work?

[wtncffts]

If recommendations from my previous university professors can save me the trouble of going through a masters program, then definitely it is worth the effort.

What if I associate myself with some ongoing research at some decent social science institute and convince the professor to support my application. If my association is for a short span I may not be able to publish, but at-least I will have a relevant recommendation. How will that work?

Certainly, if you can get a recommendation from a known social science professor, it would help. I have to caution again, though, that grad school admission, as this board attests, is extremely competitive, and, especially if you're thinking about those top-tier schools, you'll be competing with dozens of applicants with 4.0 GPAs, great GREs, recommendations from prestigious poli sci professors, tons of poli sci coursework, and have been thinking about poli sci grad school for many, many years.

As for the question of getting a job, I think the rule of thumb is that you will find it difficult, if not nearly impossible, to 'graduate' to a higher-ranked school, but that there are so many schools in the US that, if you're willing to go anywhere, finding some sort of academic job won't pose too much of a problem.

On another note, I wonder what it says about the 'progress' of the scientific aspirations of our discipline that an extensive preparation in poli sci isn't necessary for higher work. I certainly think it's reasonable that students of cognate disciplines, e.g., law, history, economics, philosophy, etc., could and do make excellent political scientists. I'm not so sure about others. It would be completely absurd for me to pursue a physics grad program without any formal training, despite, say, a fascination with string theory and astronomy. Unless I were a brilliant autodidact.

[Seeking]

That's very true. If one has had an interdisciplinary education, a degree in a related social science or humanities subject can give the person insights to pursue political science or another humanities/social science subject at graduate school - that's what interdisciplinary education is all about.

Sciences in most cases don't gel with humanities and social sciences - except a few disciplines such as Philosophy/History of Science or Science Policy.

This is why I suggested an MA in Political Science or a PhD in Science Policy for the poster above.

On another note, I wonder what it says about the 'progress' of the scientific aspirations of our discipline that an extensive preparation in poli sci isn't necessary for higher work. I certainly think it's reasonable that students of cognate disciplines, e.g., law, history, economics, philosophy, etc., could and do make excellent political scientists. I'm not so sure about others. It would be completely absurd for me to pursue a physics grad program without any formal training, despite, say, a fascination with string theory and astronomy. Unless I were a brilliant autodidact.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Seeking

[catchermiscount]

A convincing statement of purpose is going to be key here, but I am not nearly as skeptical as some previous posters. Some places may balk, but other places would be excited at the chance to coach up somebody with (1) lots of technical training; (2) an 800Q; (3) actual practical experience that may have led to interesting research questions.

Write a good statement, and apply broadly. Oh, and the job market sucks, but I would recommend worrying about that when you've gotten into a few places.

[Zahar Berkut]

Produce some writing sample that would be of interest to political science faculty, and get your letters of recommendation. Then, if you believe you have a reasonably strong application, you can seek admission in both PhD programs and terminal MA programs. I think you'd be very strong on the terminal MA side, and you do have a reasonable chance of getting into a good polisci PhD program.

Just don't restrict yourself to the "top 10" ranked programs like Stanford and Princeton, and look into any of the top 30 whose faculty can support your research interests. You stand a reasonable chance of a research and teaching career from any of these-- but a very important question will be where you want to research and teach. If you want to work in India, you'll want to check with someone knowledgeable about academia there to better assess job prospects.