assuaging some anxiety regarding qualifications

[mspoden]

Hey folks,

So i have read some forum posts and so far it has been very comforting to know that other people are as intimidated by the prospect of grad school as i am. To be honest, i am the only on of my friends even considering higher education and transcripts, GREs, and lab experience doesn't make for receptive bar conversation. Hopefully I can at least find an outlet to open discussions with other worried folks. Thanks ahead of time.

I am looking to get into a top 50 Cognitive Psych/Neuropsych program. I went to Clemson, which for all its worth was not a good fit for me. My grades suffered (3.2 total, 3.5 major) and it does not have a particularly good Psych program. I have been a part of two papers both of which are still in review and neither of which look promising. To add to the mix they are not in a related field. My GRE scores i am anticipating to be in the mid 1200 range although my goal is to get 1350ish. I have more of a systematic memory rather than just being able to memorize random things. I must see everything as it applies to the whole. This makes me a par test taker.

But its not all bad, I have been in about 8 research labs over various times for the past 5 years 3 at Clemson, 3 at Vanderbilt, and 2 at UTexas. And holy data batman do I understand research. I am completely self taught, I knew when I was in my senior year at Clemson that i was going to have to find different outlets to have good credentials. I have worked so incredibly hard to perfect almost everything i know. I impressed a few professors at Vanderbilt that decided to fund a project of mine. Unfortunately, when I graduated and tried to get a job at Vanderbilt the economy crashed and grants did not come through that would have paid me. I was able to find a lab managing position at UTexas but not in a related field. But my determination did not falter and after being rejected for meetings with various professors in another ridiculously long story, I taught myself how to program and I have been offered a job in the Cognitive department. This is an extremely abridged version.

My story is just one series of working from the bottom to impress everyone I can one after another. I have made great strides but don't have a whole lot of physical evidence to demonstrate it. I tutor Master and PhD level students in stats and research methods, granted they are in nursing and the program needs work. I am proficient in the majority of software used by labs today (100% self-taught as well). My fundamentals are equal to if not better than most of the graduate students I know. I have the ambition and passion.

Every time i email a professor i get the same thing "Where did you go to school?, What was your GPA?, What did you get on the GRE?" Then some offhand comment that I should try again in 3 to 6 months. The only success I have had is when I expressed interest in person.

Finally, i get to the issue at hand. I look so much better in person because I have more of an opportunity to impress people who didn't think they could be impressed. This is bedrock of how I have been able to do anything in 3 different universities. On paper, I am not as impressive especially to ivy league professors that make up some ridiculous majority in non ivy league schools. Most importantly, on paper how do i convince a group of people whose profession requires them to look at empirical data to consider qualitative information and think that it is a better construct for measurement in my case? I may have a better chance going to the Middle East and starting a bacon business called Bush and Barack's Bacon. And I am aware that there is an essay for most applications, but i am pretty sure the length of this post is about as much space as I get. The essay doesn't seem like enough.

Anyways, sorry for the long read. Honestly I feel a little better just knowing there is a place like this where a little venting is not inappropriate. I know I left out a lot of potentially crucial information and I can probably provide whatever, I have been doing this for a long time.

TL;DR OMFG Grad School apps suck.

[bluejay16]

You've got an impressive background even if it's not 100% related to cognitive psych. Don't give up hope! It's hard to break through the glass ceiling in society but hard work will pay off. ..someday

[Mal83]

You've certainly come to the right place...

First, in regards to your GPA, it's a tad low, but it's not that bad. You should consider taking an extra class, maybe there's something you can do online that directly relates to your program. To do well, as in getting an A, would probably do a lot for you. It would show your commitment as well as focus and ability. If you choose to not boost your application with say an extra class that you take in between now and the time you have to submit your transcripts then I would look around for a few safety schools. My GPA is around the same (3.35), but I have experience that directly relates to my field, however I relied too much on the idea that Peace Corps experience will get me into a top International Relations school, I was waitlisted by my dream school..will get a decision within 2 weeks now, but was rejected by my second choice. If I didn't have the smarts to apply to a safety school I might not be going anywhere this Fall as it thus far is the only acceptance I've gotten. I'm not counting on my dream school. It's now in retrospect that I see I should have taken another class, I had the time, I kind of regret it.

As far as the GRE goes, I can't provide too much there, I took it twice and ended up with what I consider to be a decent score, tests like that are a nightmare for me, especially the quantitative section. The GRE is weighted differently at every school and for every program...

But most importantly, you have a lot to say in a statement of purpose, a lot of great things. I can't get too particular as I'm not in the sciences, but as someone who has done it already and feels that it was one of my strong points in my app, I'd say that the SOP is not a place to simply retell in great detail your entire story. However, you have so much in the way of ambition and initiative (all of that self-taught stuff) that potentially you could have a dynamite SOP. The point of it is to not simply list your accomplishments and experiences, but to relate it to the program and how the things you've done (or a few major things) have prepared you academically, professionally, and emotionally for graduate school. Work experience can help offset a lower GPA, as can a great GRE score, so you've a lot to work with here. This is your chance to show admissions committees your ability to tie all of your experience together and convince them that you are even more prepared than most applicants to do this because of all of the self-motivated effort you put into your projects. Writing an SOP can take a long time, the more you've done, the more work it is because it's about finding the right experiences to relate to the specific program. I would choose the most relevant projects/jobs and things that you are the most proud off to talk about. You're obviously passionate about this or you wouldn't have for all of those years taught and pushed yourself to get better at it, that's something you want to convey in your SOP, that everything you have done has led you to this and each experience has only reaffirmed your passion for furthering yourself in the field. It's a lot to think about, I don't have nearly the amount of experience and it was still very hard because I obsessed over every word. But I kind of enjoyed doing, this was my time to be more than a collection of data.

I don't know what kind of emails your sending to these professors and again I'm in a different ball game with more of a professional Master's degree, but you can't get discouraged by what they're telling you, they don't have the time to say anything else if you think about it. If it's not obvious right off the bat with 3.9 GPA from MIT than what else are they going to say? They're not going to come back and ask you to describe yourself more, especially if you're not even in the application phase yet. You're better off maybe getting in touch with someone in admissions at your schools, you can tell them your numbers and also about your experiences, it's actually their job to tell you what they're looking for. Just start out with a few things you've done and ask them if they consider it to be relevant experience and if they value the initiative you've taken to do your job...

But you have options and time to do the things you need to do, so I wouldn't fret too much, although that's easier said than done...hope that helps!

[fuzzylogician]

Your GPA may not be the highest, but it should get you past most (all?) initial cutoffs. A +1200 GRE score should also be high enough to get you past cutoffs. If you are not blindly cut from the pack, you have a great chance of standing out once your application packet gets read by the admissions committee. You have an excellent background in research which should translate into amazingly strong letters of recommendation. If you invest the time, you should be able to write a strong statement of purpose (where I would suggest to concentrate solely on the great things you've achieved, and not to make any excuses for your grades) -- LORs, the SOP, a strong publication as a writing sample - these are all much more important than grades when admissions to top programs is concerned. Training a graduate student costs a lot of money and can be a great risk if said student has no previous research experience and no demonstrated success at research. Research is very different than taking classes, as I'm sure you know. If a student turns out not to be a good fit for a program or for research in general, the program will lose the time and money invested in that student and will be left one student short in that year. That's why the "intangible" parts of the application are so much more important that demonstrating book-smarts. If you take the time to pick schools that fit your interests and demonstrate that clearly in your SOP, you should do very well in the coming application cycle. It's all about getting your application read by someone and not automatically cut, and once that happens I think you have a great chance to succeed.

[mspoden]

Wow, thanks guys for the thoughtful speedy replies. Some really good points were brought up.

This one was eye opening in particular.

I'd say that the SOP is not a place to simply retell in great detail your entire story. However, you have so much in the way of ambition and initiative (all of that self-taught stuff) that potentially you could have a dynamite SOP. The point of it is to not simply list your accomplishments and experiences, but to relate it to the program and how the things you've done (or a few major things) have prepared you academically, professionally, and emotionally for graduate school.

I'd say my primary loss of sleep recently is that i am writing my SOP out in my head over and over with little on paper. Having this stated matter-of-factly narrowed the spectrum of what is relevant. I am going to take this into serious consideration when writing my SOP and i think that will help me out a lot. In hindsight it looks so obvious.

That's why the "intangible" parts of the application are so much more important that demonstrating book-smarts. If you take the time to pick schools that fit your interests and demonstrate that clearly in your SOP, you should do very well in the coming application cycle. It's all about getting your application read by someone and not automatically cut, and once that happens I think you have a great chance to succeed.

I have been working on a kind of foot in the door mentality. Because at every turn, if i can get my foot in the door then i am a shoe-in for acceptance (my puns and metaphors are on fire today.) I have a whole binder dedicated to professor's webpages and CVs. I am systematically contacting those i am interested in. You had a very good point and that is definitely something i am focusing on.

hard work will pay off. ..someday

From my experiences in academia it's all about execution. You get about 1% of positive outcome from 30% of the work you do with 70% being lost to time[citation needed]. I'm going to keep working hard because I am caught in the perpetual motion of working toward goals that are just out of reach. As I get further the next step gets more difficult. As an undergrad i used to play the 'innocent card' where I would just say things that I knew weren't quite right just to hear someone smarter than me explain it. That worked when you weren't expected to know what your talking about. Now that I am so deep into research, its either you have solid contributions or don't show up. Intimidating but not impossible. Thanks for the encouragement.

All in all, I am very happy I found this forum and I am going to do what I can to give back.

Edited May 10, 2011 by mspoden

[mspoden]

Oh by the way here are some schools i am looking at. All of them have research I am interested in.

UTexas - Work here have lots of connections

Vanderbilt - Worked there have lots of connections.

UCSD - secondary connection (collaborators of professors I have worked with)

Penn St - secondary connection and i write programs for one lab

UNC - secondary connection

Duke - I mean have you seen their work. neuroeconomics is batman cool.

UVA - probably one of the more ambitious fall back schools i've seen.

Ohio St - big school good funding, lots of pubs.

I also have a secondary connection at Berkley but for some reason i just don't wanna.

Edited May 10, 2011 by mspoden