Art History - SUNY, CUNY, Alfred, etc.

[jess_is_over_it]

Hi, I desperately need advice and have been scouring forums for a couple months and still haven't really gotten the info I need. I'm feeling overwhelmed by info that doesn't apply to me, to be honest.

I am currently finishing my undergrad after taking a 4 year break. I would never have done this had my school not been shutdown by a larger art school - in fact, I would've gone to that school had my original scholarship and grants still existed. After some life experience working and grieving the death of my father and grandfather, I decided to return. I am now at Georgia State University in Atlanta. I switched my major from Art (printmaking) to Film and Video. I just didn't feel good about my new school's art department and really wanted to try something new. The Film and Video program at GSU is very theory based and I am using my art credits as my minor.

Now that I a year away from graduation I am considering grad school. I worked in a museum (the High Museum of Art) for 2 years and loved it. I'm will hopefully retrun to do an internship there in the Fall. Eventually, I would love to work in a museum full-time - so, based on some advice from a friend, I've been researching those who are in positions I would love to be in (particularly, employees of PS1). It's obvious that I will need a MA in Art History. So, my first question is:

1) Is it complicated/impossible to get accepted into an Art History program without an Art History BA or minor? I could continue at GSU for 1 more semester to get an Art History minor (since I 3 AH courses already as part of my original Art program). Is it in my favor that my Film program is heavily based on history and theory?

My next concern is that every single staff member at PS1 has either an undergrad of grad degree from an Ivy League school or "almost ivy". I am 26 years old so my parents income no longer counts, my EFC is currently 0. I have a 3.5 gpa that should improve over the next year - if I do well on my GRE, I suppose I have a slight chance of getting in but would have no way of paying for it. So an ivy league is out of the question. So next:

2) What schools have reputable Art History programs? I want to be near NYC (since it seems like people typically end up working close to where they went to school, networking, etc) , but it's not absolutely necessary. And in the city itself would be a near impossibility for me financially. I should also note that I would like a program that would allow me to focus on film/video/digtal/new media (since that is my major), contemporary art, and possibly installation art.

I prefer smaller schools - small class size is very important to me as is a close-knit campus. The first school I attended was a private art college with a total student body of 400. I loved it, and it was very "forward thinking" I guess you would say, very independent and "artsy" but very selective and foundation based.

My boss (I work in a small gallery that shows mainly street-art influenced work) suggested SUNY Purchase. SUNY Stony Brook also seems like a good option. Both have low tuition, but are public so probably give out less aid. CUNY Hunter seems like a good choice but in the city so housing would be pricey.

Another idea would be to scratch the whole Art History thing and look at the Electronic Integrated Art MFA at Alfred University. One of my foundation professors (that absolutely loved me and has written wonderful recommendations for me in the past) graduated from the MFA program at Alfred...

I'm open to ideas.

Thanks!

[violetvivian]

Not all "Ivies" are the same. Cornell, Brown, Harvard, and Dartmouth aren't nearly as great as NYU, Berkeley, Michigan Ann Arbor, McGill, UCLA and University of Chicago, Columbia and Princeton and Yale.

Is it really thought that Harvard is "not nearly as great as" Michigan or McGill?

[losemygrip]

Most schools will require a minimum number of credits in art history (usually 24). This can normally include survey classes, so that's six classes beyond the surveys. Go ahead and get those--you need to make sure you're good enough at art history even to do an M.A.

Other options:

Dual MBA/MA art history program at SMU in Dallas.

MA in Arts Administration at Seton Hall. I had a student go there; she loved it and was offered two jobs in New York as soon as she graduated, albeit low-paying ones. One was at MoMA--they have faculty visit from NY art institutions, and this person was so impressed by my student that she offered her this job.

You also need to decide what aspect of museum work you want to go into. Preparator? Curator? Education? Exhibit design? Registrar? Check out http://www.nd.edu/~crosenbe/jobs.html for ideas.

But for Pete's sake, don't get an M.A. in art history unless you're REALLY into art history.

[ne4810]

In terms of grad school programs, I recommend Bard's CCS (Curatorial studies program) if you want to focus on museum work in NYC around contemp, video etc. Its not in the city but is close enough to intern, living is cheaper, but I have no idea about the financial aide situation. I do know that their alumni are littered through the types of places that you might want to work, and not just in curatorial.

I have to reiterate the comments about living in NYC on a museum salary though. Some of the points about other cities are very valid. I have a number of classmates from grad school who left NYC when we finished and are now full curators at museums in other cities living well on their salaries, while those of us who remained in NYC are generally at the Assistant Curator level and living on that kind of salary can be really tough. The job market and cost of living in other places can be really attractive.

I don't want to scare anyone and obviously I think this is a profession worth pursuing as I continue to blunder about myself, but I think I went into it much too naively, I did not weigh these practical issues has heavily as I should have. Good luck and feel free to message any questions my way.

[condivi]

Is it really thought that Harvard is "not nearly as great as" Michigan or McGill?

Yeah, I don't think so. I think most people would say Harvard is at least in the top 5.

[jess_is_over_it]

In terms of grad school programs, I recommend Bard's CCS (Curatorial studies program) if you want to focus on museum work in NYC around contemp, video etc. Its not in the city but is close enough to intern, living is cheaper, but I have no idea about the financial aide situation. I do know that their alumni are littered through the types of places that you might want to work, and not just in curatorial.

I have to reiterate the comments about living in NYC on a museum salary though. Some of the points about other cities are very valid. I have a number of classmates from grad school who left NYC when we finished and are now full curators at museums in other cities living well on their salaries, while those of us who remained in NYC are generally at the Assistant Curator level and living on that kind of salary can be really tough. The job market and cost of living in other places can be really attractive.

I don't want to scare anyone and obviously I think this is a profession worth pursuing as I continue to blunder about myself, but I think I went into it much too naively, I did not weigh these practical issues has heavily as I should have. Good luck and feel free to message any questions my way.

Thanks so much. Today a good friend of mine recommended Bard's CCS program and it really seems like exactly what I'm looking for. I will definitely look into it and shoot you any questions I have.

[jess_is_over_it]

Most schools will require a minimum number of credits in art history (usually 24). This can normally include survey classes, so that's six classes beyond the surveys. Go ahead and get those--you need to make sure you're good enough at art history even to do an M.A.

I currently have only 9 credits in art history. Last year, when I returned to school after being out for some time, I was considering switching to Art History (I am extremely interested in it and always do very well) but I would be throwing out a good number of studio art credits - I am considering doing a summer study abroad which would give me an additional 9 credits (18 credits are required for an Art History minor at my university). I want to work more with new media and video within a museum though so I wonder if an art history MA would even be best suited for me. I'm thinking museum studies would be more suited for me, given the courses I have taken as an undergrad and the area I would like to be in.

[violetvivian]

One of my colleagues told me: "Going to Harvard may get you the interview, but not necessarily the job."

This is really interesting, particularly because I've heard similar things. I figured it was a personal opinion/ one-off, but maybe it's a trend. One prof mentioned to me that some of the worst job talks he'd seen were from Harvard grads, and disparaged their high number of in-department hires (i.e. BA, MA, PhD Harvard candidates hired as profs at...Harvard!). My adviser also discouraged me from applying for several reasons, mostly related to the program's conservatism. Of course all this speculation really assuages the sting over that rejection letter I received a few months ago..

Not really sold on sticking Michigan and McGill in the top 10, though.

OP, sorry to hijack your thread!

Edited May 24, 2011 by greenpen

[losemygrip]

Harvard is not conservative anymore. They haven't been "conservative" since they forced out Sydney Freedberg, at least 35 years ago.

They are, however, stodgy, and firmly convinced of their own superiority. If you go to Harvard with a completed M.A., guess how much credit you get for it? One semester of course work. That's it.

Michigan is still a top 20 program. However, if you go by the recent NRC grad program rankings, the #1 program in the country is Berkeley. The next highest ranked public university in art history is U.T. Austin with UCLA right on its heels. All in between are Ivy League and private schools.

[arthistoryvoe2]

Harvard is not conservative anymore. They haven't been "conservative" since they forced out Sydney Freedberg, at least 35 years ago.

They are, however, stodgy, and firmly convinced of their own superiority. If you go to Harvard with a completed M.A., guess how much credit you get for it? One semester of course work. That's it.

Michigan is still a top 20 program. However, if you go by the recent NRC grad program rankings, the #1 program in the country is Berkeley. The next highest ranked public university in art history is U.T. Austin with UCLA right on its heels. All in between are Ivy League and private schools.

Not to knock Berkeley in particular, but keep in mind that the data NRC uses is at least 5 years old, and in some cases is based on reputation, which means it may refer to even older "data"--i.e. representing views faculty colleagues may have formed about other programs well before 2005. Take with multiple grains of salt. It's not stupid to use their rankings in a general way, especially re: job outcomes for grad students, but remember that these things change quickly especially in the current climate, and especially that if there's no professor for you to work with, prestige means very little.

[losemygrip]

Not to knock Berkeley in particular, but keep in mind that the data NRC uses is at least 5 years old, and in some cases is based on reputation, which means it may refer to even older "data"--i.e. representing views faculty colleagues may have formed about other programs well before 2005. Take with multiple grains of salt. It's not stupid to use their rankings in a general way, especially re: job outcomes for grad students, but remember that these things change quickly especially in the current climate, and especially that if there's no professor for you to work with, prestige means very little.

Well, sure. The rankings are what they are. But they now factor in for programs being very similar statistically to those that rank high reputationally. That's why we've seen an evening out. And of course intra-discipline specialization is not taken into account. I wouldn't send someone to Harvard to do south Asian art history.