The ethnic group trap

[Amogh]

Ok i do not understand this.

I find a lot of international students posting on various forums for other international students of the same ethnicity attending the same school or in the same town/area to room with etc. Why are people so ethnicity bound! Why do people move to a new place and then try constructing a subset of the old place there? I mean each place is new. Absorb the culture and appreciate it. It makes no sense to me that people would move all the way to a new city and then stick to people of only their ethnicity. I mean whats the point!

Alright i'v reiterated my point too much. Sorry.

[ktel]

It's a comfort thing mainly. Last summer I went to Germany for a course and then an internship, along with 14 other students from my program. None of them really ventured out of their comfort zone, preferring to mainly hang out with each other in our residence. I was one of the few who ventured out, joining a rugby team, but that was likely due to my comfort with the language and the fact that I've been there before and have friends and family in the country.

[fuzzylogician]

Not that you don't have a point but in the midst of a big move to another country--often another continent--where the language, culture, food, customs, money system, transportation system, (I could go on) ... are different, there is some comfort to at least having some friends who understand your culture and where you're from. It takes a long time to learn the local slang and to be completely understood by people from another culture, and some things are really not transferable. There's a common background that people share who grew up in the same place that others may not be able to understand. I'm obviously not suggesting that you should only have friends "from back home," but it can help ease the transition. Often I find that any kind of "foreign" student will be easier to form initial bonds with than "locals," just because of the shared difficulties and the fact the everyone starts out anew. In America, funnily enough, this definition can also apply to Americans who have moved from a far away part of the country. And, of course, there is no reason that "locals" can't become your friends too.

Edited June 27, 2011 by fuzzylogician

[Amogh]

Not that you don't have a point but in the midst of a big move to another country--often another continent--where the language, culture, food, customs, money system, transportation system, (I could go on) ... are different, there is some comfort to at least having some friends who understand your culture and where you're from. It takes a long time to learn the local slang and to be completely understood by people from another culture, and some things are really not transferable. There's a common background that people share who grew up in the same place that others may not be able to understand. I'm obviously not suggesting that you should only have friends "from back home," but it can help ease the transition. Often I find that any kind of "foreign" student will be easier to form initial bonds with than "locals," just because of the shared difficulties and the fact the everyone starts out anew. In America, funnily enough, this definition can also apply to Americans who have moved from a far away part of the country. And, of course, there is no reason that "locals" can't become your friends too.

I totally agree with the point you present. However, i have observed that a lot of people don't move out of this comfort zone no matter how long they live there. it's like they are trying to construct what they left behind in the new place too. kinda self-defeating but i guess comfort is important. I just find it ridiculous.

[ogopo]

I definitely think it hinders people when they stick with their own kind and don't try to get to know new people or cultures. And I also understand that when moving to a new place, especially when the culture and language are different, that it helps to have people that understand you and help you to maintain a feeling of comfort.

But I think it is unfair to think that only international students do this. A lot of people live like this, except that it might not be as noticeable because they do not speak a different language or look different. Some people stick with the same friends they've had since highschool. Some people stick to their own social class. Some people stick with only people that share their beliefs. I could go on. My point is that generally people stick to like-minded people.

And then there are people who try to break these barriers, either by leaving their comfort zone to experience new things or by inviting those people who are in groups to try new things. I think that it is easy to look at international students and say that they "stick to people of their own ethnicity" but not really work to include them. It's hard to come to a place with a new culture, and all too often I see that "locals" do not make an effort to include the new people.

Let's build bridges instead of reinforcing walls.

[kaykaykay]

Every culture has its politeness and courtesy rules. If you are visiting somewhere you adjust but always adjusting even in your relaxing, home time is stressful and exhausting. I get a mild nervous breakdown from people walking on a carpet with their shoes, but I if my roommate does it who am I to stop them? I may eat too many fatty things according to some people and I hang out some of my clothes to dry which may bother some.

I changed roommates this year I am back to my comfort zone . All of the sudden I am happy to be at home.

This problem of course is not limited to your nation's culture but may also happen when a tidy and a less tidy people move in together , late night- early morning people etc.

It is cool to mix things up but i understand the people who are choosing to make their home their relaxing home country island too.

[atmaero]

I have been hearing this many a time from different people. And being an international student who's gonna enter the US in a month, I am a bit wary about this whole thing.

The very purpose of international exposure is not only academics but also to learn and experience new cultures.well at least this is what I think.

I agree that people tend to be in their comfort zones with people of their own ethnicity/country during the initial stage of their foreign experience...but what i want to know from you people is, why does this continue for years ( even after years, having finished their grad program..I have seen many people yet to make any local friends) - is it because

1) The locals are not receptive enough to offer their friendship ,as much as people from their own country do?

or

2) Are these people not willing to come out of their comfort zones?

Forgive me if this sounds offensive to some , but considering my position , I guess you can understand why I am asking this.

[qbtacoma]

I have been hearing this many a time from different people. And being an international student who's gonna enter the US in a month, I am a bit wary about this whole thing.

The very purpose of international exposure is not only academics but also to learn and experience new cultures.well at least this is what I think.

I agree that people tend to be in their comfort zones with people of their own ethnicity/country during the initial stage of their foreign experience...but what i want to know from you people is, why does this continue for years ( even after years, having finished their grad program..I have seen many people yet to make any local friends) - is it because

1) The locals are not receptive enough to offer their friendship ,as much as people from their own country do?

or

2) Are these people not willing to come out of their comfort zones?

Forgive me if this sounds offensive to some , but considering my position , I guess you can understand why I am asking this.

No, not offensive.

I think, first and foremost, that people make the choice initially to stay with others out of comfort during the stressful settling-in period, and then because they are comfortable they stay. Inertia!

As for the locals, it really depends on the part of the country. Rural Minnesota (or anywhere in the midwest, I don't want to pick on Minnesota), for instance, will have lots of friendly, helpful folks around who stare at you with really big eyes (and smiles!) if your skin is dark and you have an accent. This can be off-putting. The northeast, for another example, has a reputation for aloofness - it is difficult to break through people's social reserve and develop truly intimate friendships. (Or so I've heard from my western friends who have gone there.) There's a grain of truth to regional stereotypes because they govern a lot of impersonal interactions between strangers.

Of course once you move anywhere and become familiar with how things work people are basically the same, but it is draining to always fit yourself into the mold of another cultural mode. Service culture is a good example, one that most tourists have had to deal with. As an American, we've got 'the customer is always right" culture, so if I travel to, say, Greece or Russia where this is not the case then every interaction with a salesperson I will be tensed up, ready for them to be what I consider rude. This is draining.

[qbtacoma]

And for the draining discussion: think about dating outside your own culture! All the little assumptions about gender roles, sexuality, how you talk about money, how you talk about the future, etc really adds up. And this is in addition to the basic personality fit, which is hard enough to figure out! No wonder people don't want to jump outside their own culture when they date.

[ZeeMore21]

And for the draining discussion: think about dating outside your own culture! All the little assumptions about gender roles, sexuality, how you talk about money, how you talk about the future, etc really adds up. And this is in addition to the basic personality fit, which is hard enough to figure out! No wonder people don't want to jump outside their own culture when they date.

I think this is a generalization...there are many people who have no problems dating people from other cultures, including myself. I would give people more credit than that...yes there may be some difficult boundaries to be crossed, but these types of relationships are doable...and dating someone from a different culture doesn't always have to be hard. I think it depends on what type of person you are...there are people who are raised to celebrate and embrace other cultures. They don't see forming relationships outside of their culture/ethnicity/race/religion as something so difficult that it needs to be avoided. On the other hand, these people enjoy the challenge of pushing themselves to understand people who are different from them and understand that despite differences, human beings are all the same.

As far as the immigration question, I would say that during times of stress and feelings of loneliness/isolation, people do tend to go to what is familiar to them...I can definitely understand, then, why people who immigrate to the U.S want to socialize with those from the same ethnic background.

However, I would also say that we should be careful not to generalize the immigrant experience. I'm sure there are many immigrants who feel comfortable enough navigating a new environment without the support of those from similar backgrounds. It definitely does depend on where immigrants are relocating to and where they are from originally.

Edited July 9, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[qbtacoma]

I think this is a generalization...there are many people who have no problems dating people from other cultures, including myself. I would give people more credit than that...yes there may be some difficult boundaries to be crossed, but these types of relationships are doable...and dating someone from a different culture doesn't always have to be hard. I think it depends on what type of person you are...there are people who are raised to celebrate and embrace other cultures. They don't see forming relationships outside of their culture/ethnicity/race/religion as something so difficult that it needs to be avoided. On the other hand, these people enjoy the challenge of pushing themselves to understand people who are different from them and understand that despite differences, human beings are all the same.

As far as the immigration question, I would say that during times of stress and feelings of loneliness/isolation, people do tend to go to what is familiar to them...I can definitely understand, then, why people who immigrate to the U.S want to socialize with those from the same ethnic background.

However, I would also say that we should be careful not to generalize the immigrant experience. I'm sure there are many immigrants who feel comfortable enough navigating a new environment without the support of those from similar backgrounds. It definitely does depend on where immigrants are relocating to and where they are from originally.

Well, yes, it is a generalization. But I was speculating about why some people choose to stay inside their own expatriate communities. Obviously, then, their experience will be different than those of immigrants who choose to socialize more in their new culture.

[ZeeMore21]

Well, yes, it is a generalization. But I was speculating about why some people choose to stay inside their own expatriate communities. Obviously, then, their experience will be different than those of immigrants who choose to socialize more in their new culture.

A little bit confused by your answer here, but again, immigrants stay in their communities for various reasons, not necessarily because they don't want to form relationships with people who are from different backgrounds...which is what I assumed you were trying to argue with your dating argument.

Edited July 10, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[atmaero]

:rolleyes:Thank u qbtacoma and others!

That was quite something ( I did not know behavioral patterns differ even inside the US ) . And incidentally, I am going to the Midwest next month ! Though not exactly a rural area, but I will be put up in Columbus for quite some time to come.

Well, regional stereotypes apart, How about the academic environment -i.e. grad students from different parts of the US,other countries , university support staff etc. ? I will be spending more time in the university than with the people outside the academia., so are these regional stereotypes a factor when interacting with other students... ?

[qbtacoma]

A little bit confused by your answer here, but again, immigrants stay in their communities for various reasons, not necessarily because they don't want to form relationships with people who are from different backgrounds...which is what I assumed you were trying to argue with your dating argument.

I didn't mean to imply that immigrants don't want to form relationships with people from different backgrounds. I was just offering reasons why some end up not doing so, and you must admit that it is more work to have romantic relationships with both parties from different cultures.

[fuzzylogician]

I didn't mean to imply that immigrants don't want to form relationships with people from different backgrounds. I was just offering reasons why some end up not doing so, and you must admit that it is more work to have romantic relationships with both parties from different cultures.

This may not be relevant to the general discussion of immigrants but I just wanted to point out that not everyone who studies abroad thinks of themselves as an immigrant. Many plan to return home once they've completed their studies; and while personally I don't think that's a good reason to avoid contact with the culture one's currently living in, I do know a number of students who are expressly uninterested in getting too involved. They're here to study, they're going back as soon as they can, why should they learn more than they need to about another culture?

[ogopo]

I think that everyone here seems to agree that there is a lot of variability when it comes to integration (for lack of a better word). It varies from region to region (Midwest to East Coast, for example), the country that the international student is coming from (it's pretty hard to stick to your group if you're the only one from your home country) and personalities.

I think some individuals just find it easier to transition to a new culture or environment than others. And I definitely think that the place you go to makes a difference. There are places where there are large groups of people from a particular region and it is much easier to stick to your own group.

I think that if you are an international student and you make a point of getting involved with the locals, then there are not huge barriers. And I think that the grad school environment is more accepting of international students because there are a lot more of them and because people are more mature. You will have to interact to discuss your research and such, so you will already have a foot in the door. This differs from undergrad where everyone can afford to stick to themselves more.

[ZeeMore21]

I didn't mean to imply that immigrants don't want to form relationships with people from different backgrounds. I was just offering reasons why some end up not doing so, and you must admit that it is more work to have romantic relationships with both parties from different cultures.

Never argued that forming romantic relationships with people outside of one's background wasn't difficult...I am arguing against your generalization that these types of relationships never happen.They happen more than you think.

Edited July 11, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[qbtacoma]

Never argued that forming romantic relationships with people outside of one's background wasn't difficult...I am arguing against your generalization that these types of relationships never happen.They happen more than you think.

Well, now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said they never happen. I have no idea how frequently they happen or not, but that wasn't the discussion; the OP asked why some people choose to stay inside their expatriate communities, and I was offering ideas about that particular subset of immigrants. Perhaps I was not as careful with my language as I should have been but there's no need to assume the worst.

Edited July 11, 2011 by qbtacoma

[ZeeMore21]

And for the draining discussion: think about dating outside your own culture! All the little assumptions about gender roles, sexuality, how you talk about money, how you talk about the future, etc really adds up. And this is in addition to the basic personality fit, which is hard enough to figure out! No wonder people don't want to jump outside their own culture when they date.

Hey qbtacoma...never wanted to start a conversation on dating...you had put the above quote up referring to dating, so I figured that I would dispute it. The dating topic didn't come to my mind when going through this thread until I came across one of your posts. I took your very last sentence literally...my apologies for jumping the gun...but it seemed like you were making a generalization. I don't really want to assume the worst, but given that the only thing I can base my opinion on in this venue are tone, words, and how they are phrased (given that I do not know you personally), hopefully you can understand why I took your comments the way I did. Sorry for offending you, however.

But anyway, this is an interesting thread overall.

Edited July 11, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[qbtacoma]

Hey qbtacoma...never wanted to start a conversation on dating...you had put the above quote up referring to dating, so I figured that I would dispute it. The dating topic didn't come to my mind when going through this thread until I came across one of your posts. I took your very last sentence literally...my apologies for jumping the gun...but it seemed like you were making a generalization. I don't really want to assume the worst, but given that the only thing I can base my opinion on in this venue are tone, words, and how they are phrased (given that I do not know you personally), hopefully you can understand why I took your comments the way I did. Sorry for offending you, however.

But anyway, this is an interesting thread overall.

Well, obviously the failure in communication is mostly mine, since I assumed continuity between my two posts and did not realize I implied I believed it was true for everyone. I apologize as well.

[Amogh]

Good conversation we'v got going here. I think that people are too focused on studying, getting their degrees and their high paying jobs. They miss the more important things. the little things that pay off more in the long run.. .. but lets not take it astray. This is actually a tendency followed by any ethnicity anywhere in the world. Like how settlements are usually divided based on ethnicity. Interesting how we humans so consciously divide ourselves into us and them.. not good.. not good at all.. leads to a lot of social tension.