working with other grad students?

[gradschoolnutty]

i'm working with another PhD student on a research project and he is on a complete power trip. he'll send me emails setting up meetings (just the two of us) without checking with me to see if i am free at those hours. he sends out emails demanding i do things that are completely unnecessary for the project - absolute time wasters. he'll schedule unnecessary meetings demanding they are necessary for XYZ, but when i get there, XYZ does not take place.

it's clear he's all about control. i cannot let him set this precedence.

any advice? he's a few years further along than me and is managing the big overall project, but he has no inkling as to what is going on in this part of the project and keeps requesting things to be done that are already done.

do students really think they gain respect by trying to control and not doing good work?

i trust him not at all and don't put it past him to try to steal my project and ideas. what should i do? how do we deal with these types of students?

Edited July 13, 2011 by gradschoolnutty

[UnlikelyGrad]

i trust him not at all and don't put it past him to try to steal my project and ideas. what should i do? how do we deal with these types of students?

Go over his head to your advisor, and, if that doesn't work, to the department chair. Even my advisor (who clearly IS the boss) doesn't treat me this way.

[ktel]

Go over his head to your advisor, and, if that doesn't work, to the department chair. Even my advisor (who clearly IS the boss) doesn't treat me this way.

I think that's a terrible way to handle it initially. Going over his head without speaking to him or trying to resolve this matter between the two of them would make the OP look childish and as if he couldn't deal with problems by himself.

That being said, my advice is to speak to the other student. Explain to him that you don't have time for unnecessary meetings and that you are collaborating, he is not your boss. If it continues, then perhaps going over his head is necessary.

[Eigen]

I couldn't tell from your original post, but is this senior grad student in your group, or in another? I would imagine that changes things quite a bit. In the lab sciences, it's not that uncommon for there to be a very distinct hierarchy, and if your PI put him in charge, I'd definitely wait before going over his head to your PI.

I think it's a problem that he seems to be on a power trip, but I'd recommend trying to work through it in a more passive-aggressive manner.

There's always the possibility of "being in the middle of an experiment" during a proposed meeting time- it's usually a pretty defensible position, at least where I am. No one expects meetings to take precedence over experimental work unless you're talking like a once-a-semester multi-group update meeting.

I agree you don't want to set the precedent for him being in control.... But if he's a senior grad student, in your group, who's overseeing the project... He sadly IS in control of it. A lot of this depends on how highly the PI thinks of him- if he's the protege or golden boy, there's a lot less you can do.

The good thing to keep in mind is, if he's several years ahead of you he'll probably graduate before too long, and you won't have to deal with it forever.

If you're worried about him stealing your work/he's making you do things that are unnecessary, you could go the route of setting up biweekly/monthly meetings with your PI to go over your work- let your PI point out that some of the work is duplicates/not needed, and then lay it at the feet of the senior grad student. This also lets you firmly set up what is your work, which makes it much harder to "steal" in the future.

I would also start asking for explanations of portions that you think are duplicate/not needed- make him come up with a line of reasoning as to why you should do it. You don't have to do it in an argumentative fashion, phrase it by asking to learn. "I don't really understand why we need to do this experiment- it seems like it's the same data I collected already. Could you please explain why it's needed? I want to understand the bigger picture of our project." It's hard to get angry at these questions, but they can help to politely point out flaws in the experimental design.

If he's not asking about times for the meetings, have you tried saying "I can't meet then, how about XX"? If so, how does he respond?

From your post, I'd say you have a lot of room to politely set boundaries... But sadly, I also think there's only so much you can do if he's officially in charge. Some labs have much more distinct hierarchies than others, your lab may be one of those.

[gradschoolnutty]

Thanks for this fantastic answer. I think you're right - a passive aggressive approach is in order. Great suggestions.

[bedalia]

Passive-aggressive is *never* a constructive or mature way to go. Be professional and mature, and speak directly to the other grad student about your concerns. Keep written records (emails, meeting minutes, etc.), if possible, in case it does eventually become necessary to speak to someone with more seniority/authority. But, really, the two of you are colleagues and grown-ups; surely you can work it out without mind-games and controlling and disfunctional behaviour that is considered a personality disorder.

[Eigen]

Passive-aggressive is *never* a constructive or mature way to go. Be professional and mature, and speak directly to the other grad student about your concerns. Keep written records (emails, meeting minutes, etc.), if possible, in case it does eventually become necessary to speak to someone with more seniority/authority. But, really, the two of you are colleagues and grown-ups; surely you can work it out without mind-games and controlling and disfunctional behaviour that is considered a personality disorder.

In an ideal world? It's not always the best. When dealing people that you can't easily approach directly? It can be a great way to go. It allows you to set boundaries and be professional without ever directly "defying" or questioning the other.

It's usually only necessary when there's a definite imbalance of power between the two parties- ie, dysfunctional boss/project manager- who you can't directly confront (they're in charge), but who you need to set boundaries with.

From my experience, most PIs are loathe to get involved in disputes between their grad students, and higher-ups even less so. You're expected to find ways to work it out between the two of you.

[ktel]

The passive-aggressive approach could be a good first attempt at setting boundaries at this stage. If the problems escalate or don't improve then a different approach must obviously be taken.

[Eigen]

I guess I should add: You'll find two very different definitions of "passive-aggressive behavior". The one I'm referring to is the following:

Of or denoting a type of behavior or personality characterized by indirect resistance to the demands of others and an avoidance of direct confrontation

Not the various types of diagnosable psychological disorders characterized by overt aggressiveness disguised under a calm facade.

[wtncffts]

I have no idea what it's like to work in a lab, so forgive my possible naivete, but I would tend to agree with those who advise to challenge him on these issues in a polite but direct way. If what he's doing is actively diminishing the work of the group, I'd suggest it's even to his benefit that he knows about it. Again, perhaps I'm naive, but you have standing in your own right; you are a grad student and were assigned/chosen for that group. You have reasonable expectations, and even the responsibility, to do what you can to make the group work at its best. Being 'in control' doesn't have to mean 'controlling'.

[mechengr2000]

I have to say I have a different approach then the ones suggested above.

Just DIRECTLY say, like a human being, "Hey, I can't do those times. They're not good for me." and "Hey, I don't think that needs to be done for this project. Here's why: ,...."

Dont be condensending. Be the opposite of what he is doing: be an open human being that is willing to listen and communicate and change when they hear a good idea. Be the kind of person who accepts others without needing to hear an explanation.

Just be open!!

Edited July 14, 2011 by mechengr2000