NYU Wagner v Fletcher MALD v Georgetown SFS (Security Studies)

[Clay Made]

I'm going for Spring admissions at the above programs (along with USC MA in Economic Development). As I've said before, I was accepted into Chicago Harris, SAIS and USC MPP programs but after the death of a close relative, I decided I couldnt face upto the immense change straight away so decided to defer. Unfortunately, Chicago or SAIS would not allow me to defer as I didnt meet the deadline so rather then reapply for Fall 2012, Spring is an option for me.

Ideally I would like to get into private consulting within the public sector or multi-lateral organisations such as IMF, World Bank, UN, etc.

What program of the above is best for me? I'm an Oxford law graduate, with a masters too but decided becoming a lawyer was not for me. I have various internship experience within law and public policy, solid GPA and GRE's.

Any thoughts? I like NYU but an issue would be that I would need to complete the program within 2.5 years as the capstone requirement poses an issue. Fletcher is a great name but with a concentration in law also apart of its syllabus, its perhaps redundant for me. Georgetown seems to be the standout program at the moment.

Anyone with any tips would be most welcome. Thanks.

[MYRNIST]

What are you interested in doing? Not just in grad school - in your career and life?

I would spend a lot of time thinking very hard about this, because I'm getting a sense you're a little undecided on this.

You've mentioned your background, targets, etc. but not actually a specific field of study that interests you. If you are interested in security affairs, your list of best schools would look very different than if you were interested in international development, or international law, and so on. Your applied schools are all over the map - you're applying for a Security Studies program, and an Economic Development program, and a Public Policy program. These are all quite different fields, and suggests you haven't really picked a field you're sure you want to be in. The fact that this is coming after deciding another field wasn't for you (the law degree and masters) only strengthens this impression.

In terms of professional goals, you want to do "consulting" or work for a "multi-lateral organization." Again, these terms are really broad, and don't help much in narrowing down your best options. What do you specifically want to do in your career? Financial stuff? Security stuff? Human rights stuff? There are consultancies and agencies dedicated to all of these, but you need to know what you're aiming for.

Please don't take this as harshness or insult, just trying to help. Grad school is a huge financial and time commitment, and if you are not sure what you want to do, it's very tough and VERY risky to make a decision about it.

[Clay Made]

What are you interested in doing? Not just in grad school - in your career and life?

I would spend a lot of time thinking very hard about this, because I'm getting a sense you're a little undecided on this.

You've mentioned your background, targets, etc. but not actually a specific field of study that interests you. If you are interested in security affairs, your list of best schools would look very different than if you were interested in international development, or international law, and so on. Your applied schools are all over the map - you're applying for a Security Studies program, and an Economic Development program, and a Public Policy program. These are all quite different fields, and suggests you haven't really picked a field you're sure you want to be in. The fact that this is coming after deciding another field wasn't for you (the law degree and masters) only strengthens this impression.

In terms of professional goals, you want to do "consulting" or work for a "multi-lateral organization." Again, these terms are really broad, and don't help much in narrowing down your best options. What do you specifically want to do in your career? Financial stuff? Security stuff? Human rights stuff? There are consultancies and agencies dedicated to all of these, but you need to know what you're aiming for.

Please don't take this as harshness or insult, just trying to help. Grad school is a huge financial and time commitment, and if you are not sure what you want to do, it's very tough and VERY risky to make a decision about it.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the harshness actually, thank you.

When I did law, I was interested in the law mostly because I was good at it. In the UK, you have law programmes at high school so enjoying it and being good at it led me to it. After interning at firms, I find the culture is not something I want to be apart of. The theory of a law degree is hardly used and I feel kinda useless in my position.

I was looking at International Relations, Global Affairs, Public Policy programs because I feel they will all allow me to transition into a consulting position for a firm that has a specialist public sector practice. I am really enamoured with economic development, having interned at a government department related to the area. I think the program areas I am looking at gives me the various skills, alumni base, and top school in the area to position myself as a top candidate. Ideally, following from that, I would do an MBA to transition into a HF, who have extensive business interests in development.

I mentioned the Security Studies program at Georgetown because economic development is somewhat related to security of a state. Skills from that degree also allow me to transition into a similar career path as the one I envisage, especially if I take the specialization of International Security or Intelligence. I actually spoke to the admissions team and they mentioned they often place students into consulting firms, who partake in the area I am interested in.

So, ultimately, I have a career goal in mind, but I'm a realist. Having already made on wrong turn (but gained plenty from law), I'm taking precautions and anticipating bumps in the road.

What would you suggest be the programs I ought to consider, besides the ones mentioned? I'm only somewhat interested in Europe, having lived there my whole life (originally from Stockholm).

Thanks!!!

[MYRNIST]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the harshness actually, thank you.

When I did law, I was interested in the law mostly because I was good at it. In the UK, you have law programmes at high school so enjoying it and being good at it led me to it. After interning at firms, I find the culture is not something I want to be apart of. The theory of a law degree is hardly used and I feel kinda useless in my position.

I was looking at International Relations, Global Affairs, Public Policy programs because I feel they will all allow me to transition into a consulting position for a firm that has a specialist public sector practice. I am really enamoured with economic development, having interned at a government department related to the area. I think the program areas I am looking at gives me the various skills, alumni base, and top school in the area to position myself as a top candidate. Ideally, following from that, I would do an MBA to transition into a HF, who have extensive business interests in development.

I mentioned the Security Studies program at Georgetown because economic development is somewhat related to security of a state. Skills from that degree also allow me to transition into a similar career path as the one I envisage, especially if I take the specialization of International Security or Intelligence. I actually spoke to the admissions team and they mentioned they often place students into consulting firms, who partake in the area I am interested in.

So, ultimately, I have a career goal in mind, but I'm a realist. Having already made on wrong turn (but gained plenty from law), I'm taking precautions and anticipating bumps in the road.

What would you suggest be the programs I ought to consider, besides the ones mentioned? I'm only somewhat interested in Europe, having lived there my whole life (originally from Stockholm).

Thanks!!!

a) If you are interested in Economic Development and, more broadly, international economics, Columbia SIPA and Johns Hopkins SAIS are among the best (I know you already tried to defer SAIS, right?)

b ) You want to do an MBA too? What would that put you at, 5 degrees? Undergrad, law school, previous masters, upcoming public policy masters program, MBA? That is intense.

c) What is a "HF"?

Edited July 23, 2011 by MYRNIST

[Clay Made]

a) If you are interested in Economic Development and, more broadly, international economics, Columbia SIPA and Johns Hopkins SAIS are among the best (I know you already tried to defer SAIS, right?)

b ) You want to do an MBA too? What would that put you at, 5 degrees? Undergrad, law school, previous masters, upcoming public policy masters program, MBA? That is intense.

c) What is a "HF"?

a) Yeah, aware of both programs. Didnt apply to SIPA as I overlooked the breadth of their program initially. SAIS wouldnt let me defer because I missed the deadline.

b ) Yes, is the plan. No would only be 4 degrees. Law school was my undergraduate (different system in the UK). No guarantees I will go in that direction because I feel with the right program it may lead me to the right career.

c) HF = Hedge Fund.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Clay Made

[MYRNIST]

a) Yeah, aware of both programs. Didnt apply to SIPA as I overlooked the breadth of their program initially. SAIS wouldnt let me defer because I missed the deadline.

b ) Yes, is the plan. No would only be 4 degrees. Law school was my undergraduate (different system in the UK). No guarantees I will go in that direction because I feel with the right program it may lead me to the right career.

c) HF = Hedge Fund.

I would look more into SIPA, as from what I hear there is quite a pipeline between Columbia professional schools and financial sector firms. Columbia law is like a breeding ground for M+A lawyers, and SIPA international econ-focused students get placed with firms all the time. If you are interested in HF (now I can use the cool lingo too!) jobs, I would give SIPA a major bump up largely because of its location and aforementioned connection to the field. NYC obviously blows away any other city in the world in terms of being in on the action for financial companies.

[Clay Made]

I would look more into SIPA, as from what I hear there is quite a pipeline between Columbia professional schools and financial sector firms. Columbia law is like a breeding ground for M+A lawyers, and SIPA international econ-focused students get placed with firms all the time. If you are interested in HF (now I can use the cool lingo too!) jobs, I would give SIPA a major bump up largely because of its location and aforementioned connection to the field. NYC obviously blows away any other city in the world in terms of being in on the action for financial companies.

What are your thoughts on NYU Wagner then? I would imagine similar opps exist for the larger organisations within NYC.

[Clay Made]

Fletcher looks to be the school for me if I really am set for Spring. Although, I am becoming more and more open to the idea of waiting until Fall 2012.

[MYRNIST]

What are your thoughts on NYU Wagner then? I would imagine similar opps exist for the larger organisations within NYC.

Good school, but not top tier.

Fletcher looks to be the school for me if I really am set for Spring. Although, I am becoming more and more open to the idea of waiting until Fall 2012.

No no no, apply for Spring so I don't have to compete against you for Fall 2012!

[JAubrey]

Although this is an older message, thought I'd put my two cents in.

SIPA will be your best bet by far. If you are interested in HFs, PE or even IBD you'd be FAR better served doing a grad scheme at a Ibank or management consultancy firm and then doing an MBA.

What college were you at at Oxon?

As for the consulting side of things, I use to work in the City for an international management consultancy firm with a number of public sector clients (mainly Gov), and in the UK we recruited from Oxbridge, Imperial, LSE, Edin, and Warwick, in the US I know Gtown, SAIS and HKS are heavily recruited by our public sector practice in terms of grad schools.

Though with your law degree, as long as you had a 2i you should have been competitive on most banking, mc, or finance grad schemes, is there any reason you didn't do this? Basically a subsequent degree is unnecessary given your qualifications...

At the end of the day, if consultancy is your end goal, I would just apply for grad schemes now. If you were unsuccessful and are desperate to pursue another degree but want to do public sector consulting Gtown and SAIS are your best options.

I will say that switching from MC to HF is extremely difficult and HF is wholly unrelated to public sector MC, so you should definitely examine your long term goals a bit more before committing to a programme.

What passports do you have by the way? As this is extremely important in public sector consulting...

[Grad_Nov]

@JAubrey,

I have similar credentials to be honest. I also went to Oxford. I'll note down my profile real quick and a few questions!

I graduated from Oxford in Law and got a solid 3.6GPA. I also have a masters. I worked as a lawyer for 6 months but decided it was not for me. Since then I have been interning extensively (some even prior to the lawyer gig), includes:

6 month internship in Beijing law firm

3 month internship with international IP law firm

3 month strategy consultancy x 2

3 months policy internship - European work but based in London

6 months government internship (economic development)

2 months work in Bosnia

I have 3 internships to come before I matriculate (1 in Berlin, 1 in DC and other in London)

Yet to take the GRE but am optimistic. I test well. Got 171 LSAT when I was thinking of an American JD.

I speak 4 languages fluently and am conversational in Mandarin and German. Learning Arabic as we speak.

2 solid recs and one so-so (prof doesnt seem to want to meet, so am not optimistic about the quality of it) - 1 problem, I have no work experience recommendation (last 3 internships, people I worked for/with have moved on).

Questions:

1) schools I'm aiming for - Yale Jackson, CIR, SAIS, SIPA, Fletcher and Georgetown MSFS - based on your experience and general things you've seen and heard, what are my chances?

I'm thinking of adding Stanford, Elliott and UCSD as backups (Stanford only as backup because I'm not optimistic about aid). Speaking of financial aid, how likely do these schools provide aid?

2) Am I disadvantaged having work experience in form of internships and not full-time?

3) Will the lack of W/E recs have an adverse effect?

4) Can I put my future internships (confirmed) into my application to further highlight my candidacy? i.e. on resume

Love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!