Are my target schools realistic?

[MYRNIST]

I am interested in international security affairs. The top 4 schools I want to go to are Georgetown SFS, Princeton WWS, George Washington ES, and Harvard KS. All of them have specific programs, professors, and reputation that fit what I want to do, both academically and professionally. Based on the below stats, am I being realistic in my targets? Obviously no one here is actually an adcom, but your feedback is greatly appreciated. If it matters, I'm applying for fall 2012.

Age: 22, almost 23

Undergrad: University of Michigan, 3.8 GPA

Double major: Political Science and REES.

Quant classes: Micro Econ (A), Macro Econ (A-), Statistics (B+), Modelling Political Processes (A), Political Economy (B+)

Got scholarships, multiple departmental awards, and won a national award.

Studied abroad in Russia.

GRE: 1570 (800V, 770Q, haven't gotten AWA back yet).

Work Experience:

Executive Board director at an international affairs journal (undergrad)

Russian-English translator (undergrad)

Research intern at an international security think tank (post-graduation)

Marketing analyst at a large corporation (post-graduation... had to pay the bills somehow!)

Currently: English teacher in China (I start in just a few weeks), freelance writer (have had national security-focused articles published in multiple academic and professional journals).

LOR: Undergrad thesis advisor, senior director of int'l security think tank I interned at, CEO of company I worked for.

Languages: English (native), Russian (fluent), Mandarin Chinese (currently beginner, but should be intermediate or better by the time I get back from China!)

Diversity: White male, so no help here!

My main concerns are a low-ish GRE Quant and my relative lack of professional experience.

Edited July 23, 2011 by MYRNIST

[Mal83]

Lowish Quant score?? You're 30 points away from a perfect score. Anyway, I'd say you have a great chance with GW, can't speak for the other schools other than that they are obviously even more competitive, but you have quite a bit of experience for your age and your stats are really solid. With these schools that are at the very top of the pack it's really almost like a crap shoot. They have very few spaces and a lot of very highly qualified applicants, so do your best on the applications but just realize that should you not get in it doesn't say anything about you as a potential grad student. Someone around here said something to the effect that a Harvard admissions committee rep told them that if they created another class out of the applicants they rejected it would be just as good as the incoming accepted class. You might want to look into a few other schools like American University, Tufts, and Johns Hopkins SIAS in order to give yourself a better shot. You're definitely very competitive so I would say to apply to the ones you've mentioned, you have nothing to loose other than the fees, just make sure your SOP accurately and clearly expresses your career goals and how a degree from these schools will help you achieve them.

[MYRNIST]

Lowish Quant score?? You're 30 points away from a perfect score. Anyway, I'd say you have a great chance with GW, can't speak for the other schools other than that they are obviously even more competitive, but you have quite a bit of experience for your age and your stats are really solid. With these schools that are at the very top of the pack it's really almost like a crap shoot. They have very few spaces and a lot of very highly qualified applicants, so do your best on the applications but just realize that should you not get in it doesn't say anything about you as a potential grad student. Someone around here said something to the effect that a Harvard admissions committee rep told them that if they created another class out of the applicants they rejected it would be just as good as the incoming accepted class. You might want to look into a few other schools like American University, Tufts, and Johns Hopkins SIAS in order to give yourself a better shot. You're definitely very competitive so I would say to apply to the ones you've mentioned, you have nothing to loose other than the fees, just make sure your SOP accurately and clearly expresses your career goals and how a degree from these schools will help you achieve them.

Yeah I did well on the GRE, but from what I heard (and this may just be Internet scuttlebutt) HKS prefers people with high quant scores (all other things being equal), and 770, while good, is not exceptional. I guess we'll see.

I agree 100% on the part about top schools being a crapshoot, I am okay with that. Just needed a reality check on whether my package will even get a chance to be fed into the admissions roulette wheel or not.

In regards to the improving my chances by applying to safety schools... I am torn about this. The philosophy behind applying to safety schools is clear - you want a decent back up option if you don't get into your dream schools. That said, it's not like WWS (or whoever) cares or even knows about your application to a second tier school. You're not "increasing your chances" to get into your dream school by applying to your not-dream school. Also, the idea of safety schools presumes that going to a second tier school is a better alternative option than just not going to school at all. If we were talking about undergrad, I 100% agree. But since these are professional graduate schools that are a much bigger time and money investment (when you take opportunity cost into account), I'm not sure going to a school you don't think matches your goals and interests is better than doing something else field-related for a year and re-applying to the dream school. Maybe my research on SAIS, Fletcher, American, etc. has been subpar, but based on what I've seen their options for security/intel scholarship are not that great (even if they are fine schools in other regards), and I might be better off sticking to my guns and trying for the schools I really want that are great in my concentration (SFS, WWS, HKS, GWES). Thoughts?

Edited July 24, 2011 by MYRNIST

[Mal83]

It all depends on your priorities, I don't necessarily think of those schools as "safety" schools, they're excellent schools for IR. I meant considering one or a few of those programs instead of placing all of your eggs into a very tiny, exclusive, and competitive basket. The likes of Princeton and Harvard are sort of like winning the lottery, it doesn't matter how good you are, there is a lot of luck that goes into getting an acceptance from either of them because as I've said, if they have a 100 spots but 2000 applicants, it's a crap shoot. And most of those applicants are absolutely qualified. I don't really know how many applicants they generally have, but I'm going off of GW's Fall 2011 admission cycle stats, which were 2100 applicants going for 350 spots in the Elliott School. So being that Harvard, Princeton, and Georgetown are even more competitive, I imagine they have an even lower acceptance rate. But don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage you from applying to them, I think you're very competitive, those schools are not within my reach so I can't say much about the application/admission experience with them, just saying that there are quite a few other programs with many different options from which you'd get a world-class education and are by no means safety schools.

Now, of course you should not deviate from your interests, settling for a program just to go somewhere isn't really what I was getting at. If the schools you have in mind are the only one at which you can study exactly what you want then I guess that's what you should concentrate on. So as far as priorities go, if you're not willing to go anywhere other than these schools then you'll be satisfied with doing something else for a year while you improve your application should you not get in. If you just want to go to graduate school as soon as possible you will consider one or a few other schools that have a slightly higher rate of acceptance so you have a more reasonable shot of getting in somewhere. But that's up to you. I understand the dream school thing, The Elliott School is my dream school, but I was prepared to go to a safety school before I received notice that I was admitted to Elliott off of the waitlist. My priority is to just go to grad school so yeah I applied to a school I had little doubt that I'd get into despite my dream of going elsewhere, but trust me, I was grateful for that acceptance.

[fenderpete]

There's nothing wrong with your quant score at all (speaking as someone who scored nearly a clear 100 less than you on quant and will also be applying to Princeton and GWU). What I think might hurt you is your lack of work experience. You're obviously a stellar academic performer, so that side of the app is covered.

What concentration are you planning on applying to and what are your long term career goals? Getting into the top schools is all about a healthy dose of fit + luck. You need to show how you fit their program perfectly using examples of your life experience and then hope your application ends up on the right person's desk.

You've definitely got an interesting profile (security, Russia, China) - it's just showing how that will translate into a career. Are you aiming to do something on the Shanghai Cooperation Organization?

[MYRNIST]

There's nothing wrong with your quant score at all (speaking as someone who scored nearly a clear 100 less than you on quant and will also be applying to Princeton and GWU). What I think might hurt you is your lack of work experience. You're obviously a stellar academic performer, so that side of the app is covered.

What concentration are you planning on applying to and what are your long term career goals? Getting into the top schools is all about a healthy dose of fit + luck. You need to show how you fit their program perfectly using examples of your life experience and then hope your application ends up on the right person's desk.

You've definitely got an interesting profile (security, Russia, China) - it's just showing how that will translate into a career. Are you aiming to do something on the Shanghai Cooperation Organization?

Concentrations I'm interested in depend on the school, obviously, but basically comes down to international security, particularly in the former Soviet Union and China (you could just generalize to say post-communist states.) I will also be applying for graduate certificate programs in Russian and Eastern European studies and Asian Studies at all my applied schools.

HKS - International and Global Affairs

WWS - International Relations

SFS - Security Studies program

ES - Security Policy Studies

Fletcher - International Security Studies

ASIS - dunno

Career goals are intel community, DoD, relevant house committees, etc. Definitely government, security, public service-oriented. I am quite patriotic and know I want a career serving and defending the U.S. If it helps understand me at all, I actually was slated to go to Naval Officer Candidate School as an intel candidate until budget uncertainties led to major delays in my processing, causing me to leave - no way I want to sit around during my prime years hoping something will happen rather than just being proactive and making it happen via an alternate route. That's actually a main source of why I don't have a ton of post-graduation professional experience (other than, y'know, being 22) - I was planning 100% on the Navy, so when I chose to leave that I was kind of fucked, as I hadn't applied ahead of time for jobs and internships. I hope that the undergrad stuff, think tank internship, and China teaching can help overcome that but it is a main source of worry for me. The problem is that paid entry level jobs for this sort of stuff basically don't exist, especially with just an undergrad degree and not enrolled in grad school. If you're a student there are precious few paid internships, but without good luck.

I've done a research project on the SCO but do not particularly focus on it.

Edited July 24, 2011 by MYRNIST

[fenderpete]

I think in this case you can make a pretty good argument for not having experience, as security studies isn't really the kind of thing you can just waltz into post-undergrad (unless you've got a connected family!).

In your SOP I'd focus on why you're going to China (I'm assuming to get a chunk of experience in a country that looks set to dominate the next half-century of global affairs). I'd focus on how you want to pull this experience together for a career in security and ensuring American interests in your career. You can also give a bit of an idea of the kind of research you want to pursue in grad school as it sounds like you've got a fairly clear idea of your subject area.

On the flip side, if you wanted to delay grad school a few years and get some military experience first it seems as if all the top schools absolutely love applicants with a service record

Also, feel free to add your profile to the 2012 thread here:

[MYRNIST]

I think in this case you can make a pretty good argument for not having experience, as security studies isn't really the kind of thing you can just waltz into post-undergrad (unless you've got a connected family!).

In your SOP I'd focus on why you're going to China (I'm assuming to get a chunk of experience in a country that looks set to dominate the next half-century of global affairs). I'd focus on how you want to pull this experience together for a career in security and ensuring American interests in your career. You can also give a bit of an idea of the kind of research you want to pursue in grad school as it sounds like you've got a fairly clear idea of your subject area.

On the flip side, if you wanted to delay grad school a few years and get some military experience first it seems as if all the top schools absolutely love applicants with a service record

Also, feel free to add your profile to the 2012 thread here:

Thanks for the advice.

The following is not meant as an attack on you, just putting something out there for forumites. I am adamantly opposed to the idea of joining the officer corps as a resume booster. I think it's a disgrace to the ideals of honor, commitment, and service an officer is supposed to exhibit. The military is not some NGO or a quick internship.

Also, joining the military is not as simple as many people think (even more so for prospective officers). Here are some words of advice for people who are thinking about this option, from someone who's been through it.

- There are three basic ways to become an officer: the service academies (Annapolis, West Point, etc.), ROTC, and OCS. OCS is the only option you can do post-undergrad, minus direct accession (if you're a doctor or medic) or the very rare circumstance of graduate school ROTC. OCS is also by FAR the least important source of officers - 95% of the military's needs are met through the academies and ROTC. All the thousands of OCS applicants are gunning for a very limited number of slots.

- A bad economy means retention rates for all military positions are unusually high. AKA, people already in the military are not leaving at the normal rate, as the job stability is quite attractive in this economy. So there are fewer open slots.

- The bad economy is also causing record numbers of young people to apply for OCS.

- There are massive defense budget cuts coming down the pipeline, so most branches are looking to shed personnel, not add.

The combination of all these factors means OCS is extremely competitive, in fact much more so than any of the graduate schools on this forum. For Naval Intel, what I was going to do, it is in the single digits. Kind of makes WWS look less intimidating, eh?

It also is extremely drawn out in terms of adding you to the force pool. I applied just over 1.5 years ago, and my application just got handled. The earliest I would go off to OCS would be 2013. Earliest entrance to active duty late 2013 or early 2014. 4-5 years of active duty means the earliest you are looking at grad school is 2020.

It is NOT realistic to think of OCS accession into the military as a quick thing. It's brutally competitive game of hurry up and wait.

Edited July 24, 2011 by MYRNIST

[StellaHaiti2]

I'm starting at HKS next month. If I do say so myself, you definitely have a chance at HKS. You have better GRE scores, better GPA (with a more relevant major- I had no prereqs), and more awards than I did. HKS accepts a range of personalities and stories (with a track record of success), so what is really important is articulating your fit with the school. Your near-military experience is actually a pretty interesting story, thanks for sharing it.

[Cossack]

I'm in the same boat as you man, int. security, fall 2012. Your GRE is insane, and the fact that you teach English in China and wrote for trade journals is extremely beneficial. I think you have a chance at all of them. What I think adds tremendous weight to any application are the personal statement and policy memo, where applicable (at least from what I've researched and heard).