Is it even worth applying to Harvard?

[RyeGuy5555]

Does anyone know anything about the stats of those who get into the Harvard Kennedy School? Can't find them anywhere. Better yet, do any of you go there or know anyone who goes there?

I'm applying to MPP (Masters Public Policy) programs (already applied to Duke, Berkeley, planning to apply to GWU and Georgetown) and I just can NOT decide whether it's worth doing the extra 4 essays it takes to apply to Harvard. I did well on the GRE, got a 730 Verbal, 750 Quantitative. However, I only have a 3.6 GPA due to a couple Cs in calculus and statistics, which I realize are pretty important to MPP programs.

I'm also a little apprehensive because they recommend 3 years of full-time work experience, although it's not required, but I'm just about to graduate from undergrad (poli sci/econ major at a top public university). I do have a good deal public policy internship experience, but we're talking like 2 summers and part-time during the school year.

What do you all think, any chance?

[jmoney]

You have a decent chance, but it's unlikely you'll be admitted with the lack of WE--WE, by far, is one of the most important factors both in terms of admissions and succeeding in the program.

You should consider working for several years before policy school. You get much more value of out the program that way.

[frankdux]

they recommend 3 years of work experience and you fall far short of that. many applicants will have 4.0s to boot, and you dont have that either. also, you have a documented weakness in math. to top it off, you don't have any true 'stand-out' qualities to make up for any of these things. (a great gre score and an internship's worth of experience might be just enough to get your app glanced at.)

honestly, don't bother applying.

[linden]

RyeGuy5555:

What do you have to lose by applying? I feel that the admissions process for many MPP programs is a lottery, even for those individuals who have great GRE scores, high GPAs, wonderful LORs, and great work experience. Although schools like KSG and GPPI probably want their admitted students to meet certain academic and professional standards, they probably also want some variety (in terms of professional experience, personal experience, outlook, schooling, etc...) in their classes. That inserts into the process a huge luck component that no applicant can escape.

You have a few Cs on your transcript. Given your lack of full-time work experience--and that you will be competing against other candidates who are also handicapped by a lack of work experience, but who have only As and Bs on their transcripts--this might keep you out. But, maybe you are the student with your profile that KSG decides to allow in this year. Maybe someone on the adcom will take a shine to you because of something on your application that really appeals to him or her. Maybe your SOP will open the doors for you. Or, maybe the content of one of your internships will interest one of the professors. But, you won't know until you try. Again, what do you have to lose by applying?

The only thing I would worry about if I were you is that it takes a long time to write and edit those four essays, and the KSG deadline is coming up soon. I thought I would knock out the essays in a matter of days. And, yes, I could have submitted a first draft of the four essays in a week. But, I took about two months after I finished the first draft to calmly make edits on a daily basis until I had the exact essays I wanted to submit. Your application will already be hindered by your lack of WE and two Cs on your transcripts. Those are two factors you cannot control if you apply this year. (Of course, they can always be remedied by working instead of going to grad school next fall and retaking the courses.) If your essays are hurried, you might be depriving yourself of a great opportunity to really stand out in the area of your application over which you have complete control.

If you have the money to pay for the application fee and the time over the Xmas break to write those essays, I say you have nothing to lose by applying. In the best of cases, you get in. The worst outcome is that you do not get in. But, at least you can call the school and find out what weaknesses you need to address to be a more competitive candidate in the future. In addition, if the lack of work experience keeps you from getting into the programs to which you applied, it might provide you with a long-term benefit. For one thing, with work experience on your resume, you might have an easier time getting into KSG. Also, as someone who shelled out almost 100K for a graduate degree and then decided to change careers, it will provide valuable confirmation that this is what you want to do with your life.

Good luck!

Linden

[Ferrero]

I am good friends with Joseph Nye. What say you to that.

[storiaitaliana]

I am good friends with Joseph Nye. What say you to that.

You'll for sure get in, then!

[lotf629]

My opinion here doesn't do much but add to the consensus, but here's my two cents: by sending in your application, you're basically buying a lottery ticket. Most of the time, if you get into a program that typically requires work experience, it's because your academic performance or your past research has been outstanding (and often, in my very limited experience, because you are planning to go into a research track in the future, so in a certain sense your past coursework *is* work experience). At the same time, you have little to lose by applying. Those essays may seem like a lot of work now, but will you be glad in March that you went ahead and took your chances? Maybe.

I got my MTS at Harvard's Divinity School, and I can say that in general, the reputation of both HDS and the K school is that they are selective but not as absurdly selective as Harvard's MBA, MD, or PhD programs. That's not the quality of insider information you are looking for, I know, but I can give you my general impression that the K School is not the kind of program that would automatically disqualify an applicant for having a C. If you have some really compelling story to tell and your recommenders and CV suggest that your work experience to date is somehow equivalent to three years full-time, you might have a shot.

I will add in closing that one of the previous posters makes an excellent point: if the program is designed for people with work experience, you might want to go get that full-time experience for a number of reasons before you move on in your education. Part-time jobs and summer jobs, no matter how selective or serious, are rarely the true equivalent of a committed, full-time position.

[IvyHope]

Probably not the most helpful advice, but nonetheless... You might not get accepted if you apply, however, you are SURE to not get accepted if you do not apply!

[seunghwane]

hell yesss i just got invited to harvard and i have some serious blemishes on my records and my GRE is about the same 670 v (95) 800 q (94) + 97 perc. subj test

[deetster]

I'm a grad student applying to the MPP/JD joint program at HKS/HLS. I have substantial nonprofit internship/trusteeship experience and just finished an MSc in politics in the UK. I was one of 3 students in my program to get a distinction (A+), and I have excellent recommendations. The unfortunate part is that I scored a 730 verbal and 600 quantitative on the GRE, and I know that HKS "expects" at least a 700 quant score. Does this totally nullify my chances of getting in?

[linden]

Here, is a tool to help you assess your chances at Harvard's MPP, as well as at any other program. (I use it daily, when I start to get jittery about whether or not I will get in to KSG.) Warning: The answers change... often.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi

[Dreams]

Here, is a tool to help you assess your chances at Harvard's MPP, as well as at any other program. (I use it daily, when I start to get jittery about whether or not I will get in to KSG.) Warning: The answers change... often.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi

It told me I would not get into anything

[linden]

FSIA:

Try again tomorrow. Almost guaranteed it will tell you that you will be accepted to every school

Sigh. Almost three more months to go until this is over.

Linden

[younglions]

Has anyone done the MYFAID application at HKS yet? I still haven't received my login information, and with the holiday break upon us, don't expect to receive it for a couple more weeks now. What sort of information do I have to have on hand to complete the application? Unfortunately, I'll be leaving the country until June, so I need to know what I need before I go!

[wantaphd]

It told me I would get into everything. I'm almost positive, however, that it will tell me the opposite tomorrow.

Sigh. It is going to be a long, long winter.

[username]

It appears I'm more or less in the same boat as the OP, with slight differences. Just graduated, 3.65 GPA from decent lib arts college, A in stats, econ/IR majors, but didn't have to take calc, which I'm now regretting. My GRE scores were lower though, 620 V 710 M 5.5 AW. Work experience- no full time, but 3 internships, including congressional office, and NGO in Spain. Other qualities would include studying at the LSE for a year, foreign language proficiency, some research and some volunteer work.

Any predictions? I'm not feeling so great about my chances, although the general consensus amongst Harvard grad students seems to be that HKS is the 'easier' school to get into and where all the H law rejects want to go.

p.s. If WE is so important to the MPP- why wouldn't most applicants with significant WE go for the MPA/ID or MPA2? Although their website does say the average student has 3 years of WE in the MPP...just wondering what the specific difference is.

[frankdux]

i still think it is a waste of the OP's time. and i'll bet any ONE person here $100 that the original poster does not get accepted or even waitlisted.

[linden]

username:

The only answer anyone can offer to your question is, that it is impossible to assess your chances. I still think that for programs like MPP there is a certain luck factor. After all, most applicants are like you, RyeGuy, or me. There is nothing in our applications that would kill our chances for admission, but there is nothing that immediately makes us stand out from the crowd. But, at least the anguish will be over in sixty days. We will all find out soon if the investment of time and money for KSG paid off or not. If you get in, that's great. If not, you can talk to the admissions coordinator and find out how to make your application stronger in the future.

You might want to look at another thread on this board. ("Here's a way for someone to pass the time" in Waiting It Out. We have a discussion going on about chances and how schools pare down the number of applicants.)

Good luck!

Linden

[username]

Thanks linden I have been stalking that board and read all about how admissions people cut out the completely unqualified people anyway. I take it you are applying to HKG as well? What kind of WE do you have? Do you think that getting a letter of rec from someone who went there (and actually interacted with me) will help me at all?

Frankdux, you're probably right, but how do you know? I just mean...do you have inside knowledge of anything that we don't? You sound very negative about it all. I wouldn't think that when the admissions committee sees my and the OP's apps they'll laugh with disbelief or anything.

[linden]

username:

Hello. Indeed, I applied to KSG. I certainly think that it is good that you have a LOR from a former KSG student, and it would help you as long as your application gets to the stage where your LORs are considered. And, given the stats you posted below, I think your applicant stands a good chance of being looked at. I think that the LOR would particularly advantageous to you if they have to pick between you and other students who seem equally qualified but don't have LORs from people who have been affiliated with the program. But, username, your guess is as good as mine regarding how applicants are selected.

Your lack of work experience might be a setback. But, how will it affect you--or if it will even affect you--that is a big unknown. Your stats are in line with what other applicants seem to have. And, the work experience, as well as the essays, give you an opportunity to stand out from the pack. But, I cannot tell you if the committee values essays more than work experience or vice versa. The advantage that you have over an older applicant (like me) is that if you don't get in this time, you are young enough that you can acquire some more work experience and try again. And, as I mentioned to RyeGuy (I think), if KSG asks you to get some more work experience, it will give you the opportunity to confirm that this is really the right career choice for you. I did my first master's straight out of undergrad, and 100K in student loans later, I decided I did not want to be in that field.

I also agree with you that it is unnecessary to question other applicant's chances. I don't think anyone on this board knows what really matters to these adcoms or how they assess our applications. If you, RyeGuy, or I are going rejected (or accepted) that decision will come regardless of whether others ridicule our decision to apply. I hope you will come back in mid-March and let us know how it turned out. Good luck!

Linden

[IvyHope]

I also agree with you that it is unnecessary to question other applicant's chances. I don't think anyone on this board knows what really matters to these adcoms or how they assess our applications. If you, RyeGuy, or I are going rejected (or accepted) that decision will come regardless of whether others ridicule our decision to apply. I hope you will come back in mid-March and let us know how it turned out. Good luck!

Linden

Yes! Don't listen to these people!! They are not experts NOR are they on any ad comms! You can't get accepted if you don't apply!

[coho]

linden wrote:

I also agree with you that it is unnecessary to question other applicant's chances. I don't think anyone on this board knows what really matters to these adcoms or how they assess our applications. If you, RyeGuy, or I are going rejected (or accepted) that decision will come regardless of whether others ridicule our decision to apply. I hope you will come back in mid-March and let us know how it turned out. Good luck!

Linden

Yes! Don't listen to these people!! They are not experts NOR are they on any ad comms! You can't get accepted if you don't app

although I agree that one must take opinions regarding "chances of getting in" on this forum with more than a grain of salt, username did solicit "predictions."

Good luck! and I like your username, username!

[username]

Thanks guys. I can accept negative predictions, but they should be tactful at least, and not offering a $100 bet against my future would be nice

[georgica1]

OP, if you read around this forum (or any other similar one) you'll realize there isn't a simple answer to your question. Whether or not its "worth" applying to Harvard depends on your willingness to part with the application fee and the time it takes to fill out the application. If you have the time and money and Harvard is your dream school, then I'd say go for it. If you apply, you might not get in, but if you don't apply, you definitely won't. Honestly, based on the stats you posted and the program's recommendations about work experience, etc., it seems like you're at a disadvantage, but no one on this board is on the admissions committee and none of us are really qualified to determine what your chances are. If you have amazing LORs, essays, SOP, etc., there's always a chance. With that said, if you have limited time/funds and applying to Harvard means that you won't be able to complete another application for a program where your stats might be more in line with their typical applicant pool, you might want to reconsider.