professions in the arts

[imogen]

here's a practical question: what professions, other than teaching at the college-level, does the MFA prepare one to undertake? besides providing a way to devote 2-3 years toward improving your art, what do you hope your MFA program will do for you in terms of longterm career development?

i ask because i love the arts, want to work in the arts, but don't see supporting myself as a practicing artist to be that tenable (maybe i'm just a cynic, maybe too much a realist). but i'm curious what other people think about this--though it might be that folks aren't really thinking this far in advance, as they gear up to start applying to programs.

but i'll ask anyway: what will you do after you get your MFA?

[varioussmallfiresandmilk]

if your mind is still career-oriented as a mature adult, there is no reason to pursue an mfa, in my opinion.

[imogen]

thanks for sharing your opinion.

i'd be interested in hearing from others who might actually consider the question, however.

[losemygrip]

Unfortunately, Various is basically correct, if a bit snarky.

The artist Terry Allen once said that if you wanted a career as a producing artist, an MFA was a waste of time. This is why I'm always asking people on these forums why they're going to grad school. In your initial post, you hit upon the two reasons for getting an MFA: as a college teaching credential, and to devote time to developing (and hopefully improving) your work. In some cases (such as in NYC), artists will enroll primarily to get studio space. Unfortunately, a lot of MFA students are there because they don't know what else to do.

However, that said, you can do LOTS of things after getting an MFA. It IS an advanced degree equivalent to a PhD. My sister worked for a cable access company for a while. Then she was an artist-in-residence for many years (in many places). Then she worked in the education dept. of a museum. Sometimes artists start their own businesses. Sometimes they end up doing graphic design. I mean, artists are problem solvers from the get go--finding a job shouldn't be hard to solve.

[imogen]

thanks for writing a considered response. i have a followup question. do you think it would have been possible for your sister to have gotten those residencies or her position at the museum without the MFA? or did the MFA essentially get her foot in the door?

i realize fully that you can't really make a living as a practicing artist--which is why i'm curious how the MFA, other than preparing me for college-level teaching, will enable me to pursue an actual profession in the arts. hypothetically, let's say that arts admin or collections management or even curation (the cherry on top) is the right way to strike a balance. granted, the focus wouldn't be creating your own work, but at least you'd be working in the arts, doing something you love (and of course continuing to create your own work). but, then, maybe it's not the MFA, but rather the curatorial, museum studies, or art history track, that will set you up to do that. and whether or not the MFA will even be a stepping stone on that path is another question.

honestly, i'm not sure of the answer, so i'm throwing the question(s) out there in hopes that someone will give a thoughtful response sans snarkiness.

[silverhalide]

This is a great thread. I have questioned my motives for wanting to get an MFA too (specifically whether or not I want to teach), but I decided that it is still worth it for developing my work even if I don't teach when I am finished.

[varioussmallfiresandmilk]

i considered the question fully, my intention was not to be snarky. the truth is that the mfa, bfa, etc are prime examples on how our culture attempts to systematically institutionalize and organize subjects that have no business in those ventures. this is an argument that many use in opposition to the purpose of art in academia. however, what they fail to recognize is the very positive results such communities and cultivation can have in the development and progression of art in general and to artists as individuals. my point was not to be condescending, it was to warn you that beyond connections, cultivation, and academic positions, an mfa is not going to do much for the vast majority of graduates. i apologize if you were looking for fiscal reassurance or some solid career prospects, but i was just trying to give you an honest answer to your question. anyways, i think that these qualities overall are good for the arts. it allows for true growth and inquiry while weeding out the people who are more concerned with living a comfortable life in a kitsch society.

[imogen]

"it allows for true growth and inquiry while weeding out the people who are more concerned with living a comfortable life in a kitsch society."

...or the people from working-class backgrounds who can't afford to go into that much debt to pursue a degree that will leave them as penniless as they were before they got it.

no worries about being condescending, variousmallfiresandmilk. i can see that that's just a part of what makes you "you," as it were. and we may need that kind of elitism, after all, to foster true growth and inquiry.

[varioussmallfiresandmilk]

no worries about being condescending, variousmallfiresandmilk. i can see that that's just a part of what makes you "you," as it were. and we may need that kind of elitism, after all, to foster true growth and inquiry.

i sense sarcasm, but internet forums can be deceiving. i hope im wrong. regardless, "working-class" makes up the majority of our population and the majority of mfa seekers. dont think youre alone in that quest, and dont think that status weeds out everyone. it doesnt. your attitude seems to be geared toward "higher education equals higher pay", which is true for a lot of disciplines, but usually not the mfa. if that is your main reason for obtaining an mfa (and you have no interest in teaching), theres really not much of a point.

if you are worried about loans and debt, there are fully-funded programs, programs that offer generous scholarships to certain students, and even some that offer stipends (though there are usually ta requirements). all of those programs are usually quite selective or competitive. but like i said, an mfa is mostly the avenue of future teachers and/or mind and work development.

[losemygrip]

thanks for writing a considered response. i have a followup question. do you think it would have been possible for your sister to have gotten those residencies or her position at the museum without the MFA? or did the MFA essentially get her foot in the door?

i realize fully that you can't really make a living as a practicing artist--which is why i'm curious how the MFA, other than preparing me for college-level teaching, will enable me to pursue an actual profession in the arts. hypothetically, let's say that arts admin or collections management or even curation (the cherry on top) is the right way to strike a balance. granted, the focus wouldn't be creating your own work, but at least you'd be working in the arts, doing something you love (and of course continuing to create your own work). but, then, maybe it's not the MFA, but rather the curatorial, museum studies, or art history track, that will set you up to do that. and whether or not the MFA will even be a stepping stone on that path is another question.

honestly, i'm not sure of the answer, so i'm throwing the question(s) out there in hopes that someone will give a thoughtful response sans snarkiness.

No, she would not have gotten those jobs without the MFA. Imagine you're reviewing applications for artists-in-residence. Lots of good people. Who are you going to take: the BFA, or the MFA? Unless the BFA is W-A-Y better, you'll get the MFA. And an advanced degree is pretty much a must in the museum field.

The thing is, you will learn absolutely nothing about the "practical" fields that you mention in the course of an MFA program. It is ONLY about making your art and being an artist. You'll have to do that on your own, or separately get an arts administration degree.

[Whinchat]

Oh for god sakes you lot, stop directing such thinly veiled attacks at one another.

To be honest I think this is a good question. For me, doing an MFA is about moving away from being a 'bedroom artist', and gaining a group of critical peers who can help me look at my work from a different angle. It’s also about having the time to completely immerse myself in my practice, as over the last year and a half I've had to juggle making art with a full time job. Essentially, What I want is access. Access to opportunities that I am aware aren't just going to be presented to me, but with a bit of initiative and hard work on my behalf, may come to really benefit me. Unfortunately I can't do this in the position I am in at the moment, I need to be out of my comfort zone with a group of people unlike me.

I think the word 'career' throws people. Career sounds vocational, and where as many people have plans, a lot can't say for certain where they would like to end up - or feel goofy saying something as unreal as being an artist. I think most institutions would rather hear the goals you would like to obtain from doing their course, and which direction you are generally heading in. Of course they would also like to establish that you don't have your head completely in the clouds, but I think you can communicate that without giving them a blow by blow career plan.

[imogen]

OK, let's use the word "profession" instead of "career."

Like many people, I'm not certain what I'd like to do, exactly. But my question was not "what high-paying job will an MFA, as an advanced degree, allow me to get?" Rather, it was "what kind of job (period) will an MFA prepare me for?" I ask the question in earnest. We all have to make a living, after all.

Because it seems to me that if two people were applying for a job at a museum or gallery, in curation or collections management or education or what have you, and one had an MA (in art history, museum studies, curatorial studies, etc.) and the other an MFA, the former would be considered more qualified. It might be that someone with significant volunteer experience in the arts would also be considered more qualified. It could be that I'm 100% wrong about that. (I have personally spoken to gallerists about this, though, and they've all pretty much told me that they don't look at whether or not artists have MFAs or where they got their degrees.)

I wanted to bring the subject up for discussion, because I'd value hearing others' perspectives. Of course, there are many reasons to get an MFA--I'm focusing here on practical considerations. I realize that. I'm not in any doubt about the value of advanced education for the purpose of enhancing one's life and one's artwork, or about the value of leading the life of the mind. My doubts lie elsewhere.

[gentlebreeze]

For me - an MFA would be for the purposes of feedback from other students and faculty, and the time/space to make work in a full time learning environment. The connections/networking opportunities/facilities and instruction are a close second. Teaching credential is a bit less critical to me, because I already have that.

For what it's worth, I have a BFA and have never had any difficulty finding very well-paying work, regardless of the economy. After the BFA and before my first professional degree I found more than ample work, all related to my creative practice and using those skills in some way, though not 100% as what some might call a "practicing artist" (sometimes that, sometimes more design.) I live(d) in a place where there's a lot of work along those lines; I'm sure it's more difficult and competitive to do so in other parts of the country/world where there is not a large visual arts related creative sector... or maybe it's easier to be a "big fish in a small pond," I don't know.

I come from a background that might be considered socially/educationally "working class," and financially, below the working class. (one parent that was considered "white trash," and the other a "fresh off the boat" immigrant, to put it in terms of how I was made fun of as a child.) I have always attended school on scholarship, and plan to do the same from MFA. And I do think it is completely possible to support oneself using one's skills in some capacity - perhaps not necessarily 100% with the art you make in studio and certainly not right away) but it's not like you have to have some other totally unrelated side job.

Edited September 7, 2011 by gentlebreeze