Big research group/lab vs Small group

[the poisoned pawn]

So here's the case:

I'm in a CS lab with around 6-8 people in it, and I'm sharing an advisor with 5 other students. So my advisor is pretty busy splitting his time to advise those other students and to do his own stuff. In my research field, I'm leaning more toward the mathematical and theoretical side which requires a bit more interaction with my advisor (to get more ideas, resolve math confusions). But in our individual meeting, which is already short, he is short of talking about high level things and he does not really go deep into the questions that I have.

I was expecting a closer work with my him and being in a smaller group. Is it a normal thing to concern about? For some reasons, I guess that having an advisor (who has fewer students) that can work more closely with you on the research will be more efficient. Is it true for your case?

I'm a first year student. So this may just be my feeling.

[eco_env]

unfortunately, even if their lab group is small, they may be busy with other stuff. I have a small lab group and don't interact with my advisor much.

[Behavioral]

And from my experience, there is a positive (strength is up for question, though) correlation between PI success/productivity and size of their lab. If you want to work with a 'superstar' in your field, for example, you'll be one of many wanting to do so.

[Eigen]

From my experience, 5 other grad students *is* a pretty small lab group in a great deal of the sciences- although CS may be a bit different in some regards.

I'd certainly say that's a number that your advisor should easily be able to split his time between, however.

[newms]

Yeah, I don't think the group is too big. My group as a starting CS Phd student has 6 students. We have the weekly group meetings, but we also meet one on one with our adviser once a week. Perhaps you could ask your adviser if you could check in once a week with him or so?

As for a big group, I've heard of groups that can have 20 people or so with one adviser - I have no idea how they make it work.

[UnlikelyGrad]

From my experience, 5 other grad students *is* a pretty small lab group in a great deal of the sciences- although CS may be a bit different in some regards.

I'd certainly say that's a number that your advisor should easily be able to split his time between, however.

Absolutely. Most groups in my department have more than 5. I think my advisor is the only one who has fewer.

As for a big group, I've heard of groups that can have 20 people or so with one adviser - I have no idea how they make it work.

My group shares a lab space with a large-ish group, I think 19? Or maybe 18, one just graduated...

Anyway, the way they make it work is that the 2 postdocs and the senior grad students are all responsible for helping out the junior grads when they get stuck. The senior grads seem to have a "position," i.e. official ICP-MS repairperson, FFF-meister, etc...so the first-years know who they can go to for help for any given problem.

Of course the senior grad students are constantly complaining about how impossible it is to get time with their advisor...one had just finished revisions to a paper and couldn't re-submit it without the advisor's say-so, but he had no time to review it...another just postponed her thesis defense by a month because the advisor hasn't had time to give it a last reading. When I hear stories like these, I'm glad to be in a small group.

I should add that I disagree that the well-known profs necessarily have the biggest groups. My advisor is quite well-known in her field; her papers are always thorough and rigorous and many are are still cited 10+ years after publication. She focuses on quality rather than quantity (she insists that her grad students must cross every 't' and dot every 'i' before a paper is even submitted) and this applies to her grad students as well as papers. She is very, very particular about who she'll take on as a student, and she works hard to make sure that her students are all funded. (This is NOT the case for most profs in my department who have large groups.)

[Behavioral]

Absolutely. Most groups in my department have more than 5. I think my advisor is the only one who has fewer.

My group shares a lab space with a large-ish group, I think 19? Or maybe 18, one just graduated...

Anyway, the way they make it work is that the 2 postdocs and the senior grad students are all responsible for helping out the junior grads when they get stuck. The senior grads seem to have a "position," i.e. official ICP-MS repairperson, FFF-meister, etc...so the first-years know who they can go to for help for any given problem.

Of course the senior grad students are constantly complaining about how impossible it is to get time with their advisor...one had just finished revisions to a paper and couldn't re-submit it without the advisor's say-so, but he had no time to review it...another just postponed her thesis defense by a month because the advisor hasn't had time to give it a last reading. When I hear stories like these, I'm glad to be in a small group.

I should add that I disagree that the well-known profs necessarily have the biggest groups. My advisor is quite well-known in her field; her papers are always thorough and rigorous and many are are still cited 10+ years after publication. She focuses on quality rather than quantity (she insists that her grad students must cross every 't' and dot every 'i' before a paper is even submitted) and this applies to her grad students as well as papers. She is very, very particular about who she'll take on as a student, and she works hard to make sure that her students are all funded. (This is NOT the case for most profs in my department who have large groups.)

Who said necessarily? I made sure to address that it doesn't hold for all cases.

[Eigen]

I was talking about this with some of my peers last night, and I think there's one other worthwhile point to consider: The rest of the group.

In a larger group, there are other grad students in your specific area of research to work with, bounce ideas off of, and get help from (assuming they're people you feel like you can work with). In smaller groups, that's less likely to be the case.

[ktel]

My group is fairly large, probably about 15 students. I haven't had to meet with my supervisor very often yet, but I get the impression that he is available if you need him. There are a few postdocs who help with the more detailed stuff, and that's good enough for me. I like to work very independently and would rather bounce my ideas off of my peers than my adviser.

[the poisoned pawn]

Thanks for your responses. I have an impression that I will have to give it more time. But it's only my first year, change can still be made, but with caution.