2012 Org Behavior PhD Applicants

[Mike C]

Hello Grad Cafe-ers!

I'm starting a new thread for OB PhDs for the Fall 2012 application season! (the other thread seemed dead)

I'm interested in seeing what the overall volume of people going for this is like, and which programs are hot! I remember using this site like crazy 2 years ago when I was applying for a Masters!

So, I'm finishing that MS in I-O Psychology right now, and I'm going to apply to a couple of amazing schools because I happen to live very close to them. I had a VERY bad GRE in 2008 (before the changes - not that it made anything better), but I'm thinking with my completion of an 80 page thesis and about 2.5 years of various research and professional experience, I'll be able to compensate. Plus, I'm lucky that these schools have profs that have similar research interests to the work I've done for my thesis!

So what does anyone think? I could really use the support, but I'm also pretty good at receiving constructive feedback - so feel free to let it rip...

2008 GRE: 960 TOTAL!!!!! (Ahhhhhh)...hey at least it got me into a Master's program!

Low-tier BA in Psych: 3.85 GPA

Mid-tier MS in I-O Psy: 3.86 GPA

GREAT LETTERS: VP at Fortune 500 company (PhD), Associate Dean in College of Business, and my thesis advisor (I-O)

2.5 Years of paid research experience in academic and organizational settings + 1.5 years of independent research for thesis

Schools:

Berkeley Haas

Berkeley Social-Personality Psych

Stanford GSB

Indiana University (safety)?

I'm feeling especially nervous because these are some crazy schools. But I already started reaching out to some of these profs and surprisingly I've had some encouragement (I think they just tell everyone that stuff)!

What do you all think? Looking forward to responses to my questions, but also to hear about everyone else's plans =D

-Mike

[Behavioral]

The research experience is definitely going to be a huge plus, for sure.

You're unfortunately going to HAVE to re-take the GRE (or be like me and take the GMAT instead, since most b-schools prefer it over the GRE) since I believe all schools have a hard cutoff of 1000 at least.

For IU-Bloomington, are you applying there for OB or Social Psych? If the latter, they're not a safety; if you're applying to Kelley SOB, then they're easier, though still not an easy program to get into (I did get in for Marketing last year, though).

And you're most definitely going to have to apply to more than four programs, especially when three of them are considered top 5-10 in their disciplines.

[Soupful]

Similar to Mike C, I'm finishing up a MS in I/O psych too. Not from a top tier school but definitely mid tier (only school offering MS I/O in my state)

However one catch is that I live overseas. Are my chances of getting in hugely diminished for first tier schools? (e.g. HBS, Stanford GSB)

My GRE scores are ok, I don't have the final scores, but if the ranges are correct I should be around the 90th percentile for both Q and V.

Heaps of internship experience (international too).

Research experience in this and a previous course using high level stats. (around 3 years now).

Good letters (hopefully), one from a leading academic in the country and the other is my course chair also well known in the country.

GPA = average

Any insights welcome!

[Behavioral]

I know in my program (Kellogg Marketing), internationals easily outnumber domestics -- it's also like that for the entire entering class of 2011 with 20/32 being international (http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/Programs/DoctoralProgram/Admissions/AdmissionsStatistics.aspx)

[Mike C]

Behavioral,

Thanks for your comment! Regarding the GRE vs GMAT - the Org Behavior/Mgmt programs require GREs, so I guess I'm out of luck. Safety may be IU Kelley due to a Prof there who is prolific in my thesis topic, and happened to reach out to my advisor looking to recruit Fall 2012 OB applicants. I didn't want to apply to any other schools because I dread moving my family across the country again! But with your comments regarding the GRE scores as a massive hindrance, I might have to reconsider looking to other schools with faculty interests that align with mine. Actually, one of the POIs at Stanford GSB suggested I apply to Kellogg, do you enjoy it there? Was also thinking about trying Chicago, but I don't know?

I know that both Stanford and Berkeley state "no minimum cutoff" for test scores, but I was actually wondering if the Admissions Committee sees a low score and says, "well we can't let someone with that score in"... I guess we'll see. Crazy that a dumb standardized test, which seems somewhat unreliable (at least in my case) would be a major determinant. I mean I scored just above "failing" and I've been very successful in my program (there are students who haven't finished their theses in over four years)!

Soupful,

Sounds like you've got me beat! Have you received any feedback from POIs at any of the schools you're applying to? What are your research interests if you don't mind me asking? Mine are organizational cultures for innovation and pro-social employee behaviors...

-Mike C

[Behavioral]

Good to hear you have a contact at Indiana. Leverage that as much as you can and talk to your advisor.

No clue on the hard cutoffs, but most schools still have soft cutoffs that they use during administrative culling (unless a professor is on the lookout for your application a priori). Sucks that a standardized test that doesn't measure research ability is so important, but it's part of the system and you have to accept that schools adopt it as a metric for a good enough reason that they won't just overlook it.

I love Kellogg so far. The faculty here are among the most famous and respected in all of marketing. Management and Organizations here is no slouch either. I'm sure you've heard of Keith Murnighan (actually taking a behavioral economics seminar with him this quarter) and Adam Galinsky -- both are prolific and extremely well-respected in their research, and best of all, both are so approachable and open to working on projects with students. I don't care much for advertising for Kellogg, but Murnighan and Galinsky alone are enough for many to put Kellogg on their application list; add Kellogg's overall reputation for being a research powerhouse, the ability to cross-enlist with U of Chicago classes, and the weighted emphasis on inter-disciplinary research (I'm working on pitching Keith an idea for a study; lots of other students work with Psych faculty), it's hard not to give us a nod.

[Soupful]

Thanks Behavioral, the stats are very interesting! I also find it encouraging that high profile professors remain quite approachable.

Mike C - I was told not to approach anyone within the faculty (except for admins), have I got this wrong? The problem with being on the other side of the globe is that my contacts/resources are limited... Add on top of that different grading systems etc., it won't be easy.

We do things quite differently here, generally we are to approach the faculty member we are interested in working with first, confirm they are willing to take us on, then apply.

My research interests are quite broad, but I would like to look into the interactions between leadership and teams (which is the area I've been working in for past 2 years). Cross-cultural comparisons too.

[Mike C]

Yeah, Both Kellogg and Booth (right?) at Chicago are schools I'm considering. And I'm totally aware that they are amazing, I see a lot of faculty come from Silicon Valley to there and vice versa, so I'm sure it would be as competitive as my local "Top 5"ers. I'm just worried that because my GREs are bad, it's going to be the same everywhere. So I figured I'd just throw caution into the wind, and apply at the ones here to see if my MS and LORs hold enough weight to bypass soft cutoffs. Do you think a lot of applicants come in with prior grad degrees? The stats at Haas say 43% "in the program" have previous grad degrees, so I'm optimistic. Plus I've had some positive feedback from a POI in the Psych department who works jointly with Haas.

Oh, and I was looking at some of the Faculty there who study Org Innovation and Creativity, and there are definitely some heavy hitters too at Kellogg! I wasn't aware of the cross-enlistment relationship with Chicago either. They have an A-list of Org Creativity faculty too, in both Booth and Psych...thanks for that info

Regarding the etiquette of contacting POIs, I didn't know there was one! So, I may be going against the grain. Like you, I was under the impression that it's best to contact them with a short intro and to ask if they're accepting PhD advisees for the next year??? That's what I've been doing, and it worked well for Berkeley. Behavioral's thoughts on the possibility of Profs paying attention to applicants of interest (AOI?) during the admins makes me even more optimistic!!!!!! Plus, I had a very heavy hitter POI at Stanford write me back swing he is taking a long overdue 2-year sabbatical in 2012!!! Now I know to stress my 2nd choice POI more in my SOP to GSB...hehehehe!

God this is so stressful! I spoke with a friend in a Neuroanatomy PhD program (3rd year) who finished undergrad with me, and she loves it. I'm just wondering if I'm giving up too easily on the job hunt instead??? It's just EXTREMELY competitive and expensive out here in the Bay area! Maybe a move is the right idea??? I guess here's a 2nd part of my question...

Now that I'm thinking of adding some more schools to the list (just have to find more Org Creativity experts!), what are your thoughts on best locales? I've only lived in Florida and California. My wife and I have talked about Chicago, and she'd rather head there than Indiana...hahaha!

Thanks for commenting in this thread too btw! I didn't think anyone would respond...

-Mike

Edited October 13, 2011 by Mike C

[BlueCamel]

Hey guys! Seems like the competition is pretty intense this year! Now I'm really worried about my chances!! Haha

I am applying for both OB and Social Psych PhD. Primary research interest is how judgment and decision making are influenced by culture, stereotypes, nonverbal behavior, & power

Currently a senior at a small Liberal Arts college

GRE: I took the new one so I don't have my scores yet. With the estimated score given, I did poorly on Verbal but I did fairly well on Quantitative

GPA: 3.74; Major GPA: 3.82

2+ years of research experience, 1 publication in Sex Roles, 1 poster at a large conference, 1 talk at a regional student conference

Writing my senior thesis at the moment

Possibly very good LOR (hopefully)

Schools (OB):

INSEAD

Harvard Business School (joint program with psychology)

Columbia Business School

WUSTL Olin School

UCSD Rady (backup)

And Mike, I'm curious, who are you planning to work with at Berkeley (or who you contacted)? And what is your master thesis on ? BTW, Galinsky in Kellogg is supposedly a big name in creativity! I'm applying to work with William Maddux at INSEAD who also worked with Galinsky and also does research in creativity

[Behavioral]

 

 

 

2

On 10/16/2011 at 7:01 PM, BlueCamel said:

Hey guys! Seems like the competition is pretty intense this year! Now I'm really worried about my chances!! Haha

I am applying for both OB and Social Psych PhD. Primary research interest is how judgment and decision making are influenced by culture, stereotypes, nonverbal behavior, & power

Currently a senior at a small Liberal Arts college

GRE: I took the new one so I don't have my scores yet. With the estimated score given, I did poorly on Verbal but I did fairly well on Quantitative

GPA: 3.74; Major GPA: 3.82

2+ years of research experience, 1 publication in Sex Roles, 1 poster at a large conference, 1 talk at a regional student conference

Writing my senior thesis at the moment

Possibly very good LOR (hopefully)

Schools (OB):

INSEAD

Harvard Business School (joint program with psychology)

Columbia Business School

WUSTL Olin School

UCSD Rady (backup)

And Mike, I'm curious, who are you planning to work with at Berkeley (or who you contacted)? And what is your master thesis on ? BTW, Galinsky in Kellogg is supposedly a big name in creativity! I'm applying to work with William Maddux at INSEAD who also worked with Galinsky and also does research in creativity

Why not Kellogg? You'd get direct access to Galinsky and also to Derek Rucker in Marketing (who is THE 'power' guy in Psych and Business).

[BlueCamel]

Haha I would love to apply to Kellogg. Galinsky is so awesome and I really respect him as a researcher. The main concern is weather! I know this sounds kinda lame, but I grew up in South East Asia and California. The winters in New York is already bad enough for me! Hahahaha... and I honestly don't know my chances cause I am applying to too many top-tier schools

[Behavioral]

I was born and raised in Southern California (LA then SD for school/work), and I'm tackling the winter head on. Sure I might freeze to death, but I don't plan on being outside my apartment and office much, so the suffering will hopefully be minimized to just the trip to and from campus.

And yeah -- I lacked all the confidence in the world and only applied to two top 10 schools (really wish I applied to a lot more), but I can't (and don't) regret where I ended up. Apply broadly, but if you're even itching to see if you can get in somewhere, I'd hate to regret not applying to a school for the rest of my career.

[BlueCamel]

Is INSEAD's PhD very hard to get in? I only know that its MBA program is very very good and very tough to get in

[Behavioral]

Is there a reason you want to go there specifically? INSEAD numbers make it seem like a top school, but historically their placements are nowhere near top 10.

[BlueCamel]

Wow I did not know that. I like William Maddux's research, and there's a dual-campus system at France and Singapore. I'm hoping to live in some places other than US in the future. Plus, i like the diversity of the school (I went to an international school)

[yubby]

hi all,

thanks for starting the thread...always nice to find other people in the same boat

research interests are still very vague...nonverbal behaviour, person perception, motivation, selection, embodied cognition, emotions and decision making/social judgments are some of the topics i like..but I feel like I'm very flexible (probably not a good thing at this point)

here are my stats:

School: large public university in Canada

Major: Psychology (Research stream)

overall GPA: 3.89 / 4

psychology GPA: 3.98

GRE: 800Q, 650V, 5AWA

research experience: 3 years of research experience in psychology labs and an OB lab at a large business school, completing senior thesis now

no publications or presentations (have one in submission atm, one being written up soon - not sure if i can get it submitted by the deadlines, and will have a regional conference presentation in april)

Letters of recommendation: 3 good-to-great letters, 2 from professors, one from a postdoc

schools: 1 social psy, 1 i/o psy (both canada), then b-schools: rotman, hbs, duke, stanford, wharton, kellogg, booth, insead

within the b-schools, there are a few where I'm split between marketing and ob...i would love to learn more about differences in coursework (ie. relative emphasis on psychology and quant-related topics) in these two streams

i heard that some marketing programs force you to take courses in economics and other commerce-like topics, whereas this is less common in ob programs...is that true?

any input is appreciated + good luck to everyone this year!

[Behavioral]

You should be able to get at least a good amount of interviews/flyouts from your list, yubby. Just make sure you nail your SOP.

[Behavioral]

Also, if you can replace the postdoc letter with another professor, I'd do that. As it stands, very few schools place ANY weight on postdoc/grad student letters.

[yubby]

thanks behavioral - do you mean they won't even look at it?

yea, anyway, i wish i could sub it out but letter from the prof i could get wouldn't even come close to the one I'll be getting from the postdoc

[Behavioral]

thanks behavioral - do you mean they won't even look at it?

yea, anyway, i wish i could sub it out but letter from the prof i could get wouldn't even come close to the one I'll be getting from the postdoc

No idea what happens once it reaches a professor's desk, but I've gotten unanimous feedback from professors saying to not solicit letters from postdocs and grad students.

[Mike C]

Hey guys! Seems like the competition is pretty intense this year! Now I'm really worried about my chances!! Haha I am applying for both OB and Social Psych PhD. Primary research interest is how judgment and decision making are influenced by culture, stereotypes, nonverbal behavior, & power Currently a senior at a small Liberal Arts college GRE: I took the new one so I don't have my scores yet. With the estimated score given, I did poorly on Verbal but I did fairly well on Quantitative GPA: 3.74; Major GPA: 3.82 2+ years of research experience, 1 publication in Sex Roles, 1 poster at a large conference, 1 talk at a regional student conference Writing my senior thesis at the moment Possibly very good LOR (hopefully) Schools (OB): INSEAD Harvard Business School (joint program with psychology) Columbia Business School Berkeley Haas UCSD Rady (backup) And Mike, I'm curious, who are you planning to work with at Berkeley (or who you contacted)? And what is your master thesis on ? BTW, Galinsky in Kellogg is supposedly a big name in creativity! I'm applying to work with William Maddux at INSEAD who also worked with Galinsky and also does research in creativity

Hi Blue Camel,

If I got in at Hass I would like to work with Barry Staw, Jennifer Chatman, and Charlan Nemeth (Psych) - Char replied back to me saying that I did a great job of selecting them to further my research agenda - and advised me to apply to Haas. But we'll see...

My thesis studied the relationship between employee perceptions of Org climates that support creativity and demonstrations of Org Citizenship Behavior. So I'd like to look more into how the relationship between these constructs interacts with personality, etc.

I'll go ahead and update my list here while I'm at it...I decided to avoid the midwest too! I may be missing out on a lot of amazing schools, but I'm limited in my budget for applications and want to keep my options open to staying on the west coast and to schools where I've received some feedback from POIs. Indiana University is an exception because of a POI there who explicitly asked my advisor to have me apply (so it might be a back up)...

Berkeley Haas

Stanford GSB

Portland State (I/O Psych) - transfers a Masters degree!

U Washington Foster School of Business

UC Irvine Merage School of Business

Indiana U Kelley School of Business

It definitely sounds like things are going to be very competitive out there this year! Glad I started this thread so we can all scare the crap out of each other! Hahahaha, just kidding!

[Bigbangtheory]

Hey guys,

seems like the OB peers have made themselves comfortable in here already. Let's stay in touch over the next few months...

I'll contribute my profile as well. Mostly applying to top 20 schools in the US and Europe (probably rather a high risk approach).

PROFILE:

Type of Undergrad: Business major, decent Central European b-school

Undergrad GPA: converted probably around 3.6, exchange at decent public school in the US (GPA 3.9/4.0)

Type of Grad: Business major, MSc at top UK institution

Grad GPA: converted probably around 3.8-4.0, exchange at top 10 US MBA school (GPA 3.9/4.0)

GRE: 800Q, 560V, AWA4 (2nd try)

Math Courses: Statistics for business, basic calc

Econ Courses: Intermediate Micro and Macro, 2 Game Theory classes

Letters of Recommendation: full prof (UK), full prof (Europe), associate prof (US)

Research Experience: Undergrad thesis, Master's thesis, a few term papers (all with highest grade)

Teaching Experience: none

Research Interests: negotiations, emotions, group decision making

SOP: in progress

Other: 1 year of strategy consulting experience

Concerns: grade conversion deflates my UGPA, no real research experience, probably don't have time to socialize with lots of POIs

Good luck to everyone!

[BlueCamel]

If I got in at Hass I would like to work with Barry Staw, Jennifer Chatman, and Charlan Nemeth (Psych) - Char replied back to me saying that I did a great job of selecting them to further my research agenda - and advised me to apply to Haas. But we'll see...

Nice, I'm planning to work with Dana Carney and Laura Kray at Haas. Dana just transferred from Columbia to Berkeley so she wasn't sure whether she'll be allowed to take students or not, but whatever... she is actually a good friend of my advisor, and I really hope that will improve my chances a little

[BlueCamel]

how many schools are people applying to?? I'm thinking of 8 or 10...

[yubby]

originally 10, but thinking 7-8 now