Pre-application visits

[oswic]

Hello,

I am applying to PhD programs and Fall 2012 applications deadlines are nearing. I'm wondering if I should fly out to visit two universities at the top of my list. I had always intended to go but these universities are on the other side of the country and I'm low on funds. I corresponded by email to potential advisers in September and they were interested in my proposed research topics and thanked me for contacting them but we haven't continued our conversations. I feel I am a strong candidate - I have an MA in History with honors, solid letter writers, language preparation, and a good statement of purpose. However, I am taking the GRE on Monday and I don't think it is going to go well. Also, I am less confident about my writing sample because it doesn't use primary sources (my Arabic is not that strong yet but the sample does show a good command of the historiography of the topic). Is it weird to email the profs again a few months after our initial contact and say, hey I want to come visit! I can't help but think that a face to face meeting will be helpful. Any advice you have will be appreciated.

Thanks!

Edited October 21, 2011 by oswic

[maeisenb]

I would think the key thing for you is the cost. While it certainly wouldn't hurt to meet people in person, if it's a expensive long trip for an hour or so conversation, that would seem to not be a costly trip to make.

[TMP]

Don't. Just don't. Not worth spending $400 for a 30 minutes conversation. If you get in, you will have pretty much all-expenses paid trip to those schools.

If you want to visit somewhere, choose those that you can get to very easily and cheaply. Or simply go to national conferences in your sub-field to meet the professors face-to-face (if they're attending).

Professots don't expect potential applicants from across the country to visit.

[crater21]

I would definitely not spend hundreds of dollars to fly across the country for what may be a 20-30 meeting. But, if you are nearby, it might be worth a visit. I don't think it is weird at all to ask for a pre-application meeting. If you can roll that in with a campus tour, meeting with a couple of grad students, etc, it might turn out to be a really informative visit.

[oswic]

Thanks for your responses. Unfortunately, I'm not applying to any universities near me. This year's national conference is in DC (I'm in LA) and at this point it will be more costly to go to that than to visit Penn, which is where I'd like to visit. I'll hang tight until Monday and see how I do on the GRE. I just want to feel that I did everything I possibly could when I submit my applications. I know the GRE is going to be my obvious weakness and I don't want to get thrown in the "no" pile because of a low score. This is why I'm putting so much weight on a visit.

[Sparky]

I know the GRE is going to be my obvious weakness and I don't want to get thrown in the "no" pile because of a low score. This is why I'm putting so much weight on a visit.

The point that everyone else has been trying to make is, visiting in advance will not help you get in.

I know we all like to feel that we are super-impressive in person and that our sparkling personalities will win everyone over, but this is just not how grad admissions work. (In large part, BTW, because the vast majority of grad students really are that d*mn impressive.) Furthermore, if you're thinking of it as a way to make up for a weak GRE (probably the least important part of the application in terms of getting in), even if a visit hypothetically would help you, the GRE enters the process at entirely different stages. First, *some* schools use it in combination with GPA as a weed-out measure to help screen out the weakest applications. (Most descriptions of the grad admissions process you will read on the Internet, however, stress that a faculty/staff member always combs through the auto-reject pile to make sure otherwise awesome applicants with a weak GRE for whatever reason still get a chance). It is highly, highly unlikely that a personal visit would make any difference at this stage. Secondly, some schools use GRE scores *after* admission to help allocate extra funding. So again, not a factor in straight-up admission. Also, you have no idea whether the profs you meet will be on the admissions committee, or how much say they will have in the process.

You want to work with Arabic-languages sources and your Arabic isn't good enough to use in a paper? SPEND THE MONEY ON A TUTOR. Get your language into shape before you start the program. All of the schools to which I applied stressed that demonstrating an ability to work with primary sources *in the original language(s)* would be crucial to include in my writing sample. Granted, I'm a medievalist and our language standards attempt to be a little more rigorous, but this is a far, far bigger weakness in your application that you *can* start to make up now. It will do you entire worlds of good, both in terms of your own scholarship and in terms of admissions, to work on languages instead of worrying about the non-benefits of an expensive visit or your potential GRE score.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Sparky

[TMP]

I just want to feel that I did everything I possibly could when I submit my applications. I know the GRE is going to be my obvious weakness and I don't want to get thrown in the "no" pile because of a low score. This is why I'm putting so much weight on a visit.

Everybody, not just you, feels that way! Everyone wants make sure that their houses, made with a deck of cards, is properly built to withstand a "no". I've been there. Many of us old-timers on these boards have been there. We can only do what's in our control, including finances.

Sparky is right about languages. History shows (pun... unintended) on these boards that the more successful applicants have had strong language background and demonstrated competency through their writing samples or a semester/year abroad at a language school. When you do the latter, it shows serious commitment to your study. Professors know that reputable language schools aren't easy to sit through, day after day, and the immersion is just cannot be compared to the language classes in the US.

Not only that, you do have competition from foreign students with good command of English and are native or very advanced in desirable research languages.

[qbtacoma]

Chime on the language preparation. If you are doing Middle East history, you should know that field puts huge stress on language, perhaps equal or greater than the emphasis put on language for medievalists. And the sooner you can work with primary sources, the better.

And (arguably) the most important part of your application will be the writing sample. If you want to spend extra time on something after you've spent all your money on language classes, polish that.

[goldielocks]

I honestly have nothing to add that hasn't been said. Just wanted to second the instincts that NO, you shouldn't spend a lot of money on pre-app visits. It will not compensate for the other parts of the application, and it's really more for you than for the school — so you can see the program/area yourself.

Also, chime on the language prep.

Best of luck.

[StrangeLight]

<p>&quot;adding a primary source&quot; wouldn&#39;t be a good way to create a research paper anyway. research papers are built on your primary sources, they&#39;re not historiographies with a few primary sources thrown in. the lack of ability to work with arabic primary sources also implies a lack of ability to work with arabic secondary sources, which will also be critically important. i&#39;d suggest revising your writing sample to clearly show your knowledge of the secondary sources written in arabic. this will at least communicate to programs that you can read arabic (which, after 2.5 semesters, you should be able to do, if slowly and with a dictionary/translator on hand). this is doable in the time frame you have until applications are due and it will, at a minimum, prove that you really know arabic.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>you say you already completed an MA in history, so i&#39;m surprised to see that you don&#39;t have a writing sample that includes primary sources. what did you do for your MA thesis? i promise you that PhD programs will also be surprised that you don&#39;t have a writing sample that includes primary sources. this should be a much larger concern to you than anything about visits or GRE scores.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>forget about the GRE. it&#39;s over. unless you scored under 500V (or, under the old system, a 500V), i wouldn&#39;t even bother mentioning it in your SOP. let it go. either use a writing sample with primary sources (even if they&#39;re in english) OR make sure your historiography paper mentions secondary sources that are written in arabic. if possible, choose a writing sample with english primary sources but arabic secondary sources.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>again, the weak part of your application is not your GRE or your lack of a visit: it&#39;s your writing sample/language preparation. do what you can now to make up for that and forget about the rest.</p>

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[TMP]

off topic, seriously, StrangeLight, what's with your internet browser showing codes on these threads but not in your PMs with me? So weird.

[StrangeLight]

<p>i don&amp;#39;t know. sometimes i go back and edit out the code. sometimes it doesn&amp;#39;t come up at all. this website hates me.</p>

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see???

Edited October 24, 2011 by StrangeLight