Rank of schools in order of admissions difficulty

[FrightenedProspectiveMPP]

Hi everyone. A simple request: could you rank these schools in order of the difficulty of gaining admission? If it's tough to be precise, a rough tiered list would be great too. I have my preferences, but can't afford too many applications, so I'm trying to find the best application scheme to hedge my bets. Thanks!

NYU Wagner

GWU Trachtenberg

UWashington, Evans

CMU Heinz

Georgia State AYSPS

UChicago Harris

Georgetown GPPI

UGA's PADP

Columbia SIPA

American SPA

UMD SPP

UCLA SPA

I am applying for MPP programs, or the closest MPA I can find in places like NYU that don't offer them.

[Burnt Orange]

Taking a stab at this from the research I've done, my tiered list of competative admissions (not necessarily best program, etc.) is as follows:

Columbia SIPA / Chicago Harris / CMU Heinz / Georgetown GPPI

GW Trachteberg / UW Evans / NYU Wagner

UMD Maryland / American SPA / UGA PADP / UCLA SPA / Georgia State AYSPS

I'd be interested to see anyone else's take on this. One thing to consider is that while UGA, UCLA, UW, NYU, and Georgia State are all very strong programs at excellent universities, it seems their respective draws may be a little more regional than some of the others. But remember, applicants from all around the country self-select into and out of writing applications for any number of reasons - too metropolitan, prefer college towns or prefer the west/east coast to stay close to family, etc.

I think the only safe thing to say here is that none of these schools is a "slam dunk." They'll all be competative in their own right. Choose programs based on fit, faculty, family, finances, and anything else you deem important. But remember, the beer will be cold no matter where you end up!

[bmb7z]

Just a quick note -- UGA, UCLA, and NYU all draw national classes.

[D.c. Mack]

I agree with USMA06 in general except I think Amer.U is in that second tier as well.US News has MPAs from AU-SPA at #6 and GWU-Trachtenberg at #15. MPP comparison forum I saw said GWU > AU. I know GW is generally considered more elite (Undergrad, Elliot, Law School, etc.) so what accounts for US News ranking then?

[jc08c]

I can only speak on the America vs GW debate... My research shows that GW is a considerably better school and better program. (Take a look at alumni) Also, I am confused about the US News Ranks you mention. The one I saw had American and GW tied at #14. However, these ranks were done in 2008 so I feel like they are extremely outdated. Take a look: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-public-affairs-schools/public-affairs-rankings

[JAubrey]

I agree with USMA06 in general except I think Amer.U is in that second tier as well.US News has MPAs from AU-SPA at #6 and GWU-Trachtenberg at #15. MPP comparison forum I saw said GWU > AU. I know GW is generally considered more elite (Undergrad, Elliot, Law School, etc.) so what accounts for US News ranking then?

Rankings can be a bit flawed, and in terms of placement, reputation, alumni, access, etc. GW is solidly second tier, whereas AU SIS, is decidedly a step below. Now UW Evans I would definitely move to 3rd tier, with AU SIS, and Mich Ford. Heinz is fine, but again solidly second tier. And UPenn Fels, despite its focus is again second tier if not borderline 1st tier as is Duke Sanford.

You also left out HKS, which is obviously first tier.

As for UMD Maryland /UGA PADP / Georgia State AYSPS, they are fourth tier if there were to be such a category, maybe even 5th tier for Georgia State.

[state_school'12]

Rankings can be a bit flawed, and in terms of placement, reputation, alumni, access, etc. GW is solidly second tier, whereas AU SIS, is decidedly a step below. Now UW Evans I would definitely move to 3rd tier, with AU SIS, and Mich Ford. Heinz is fine, but again solidly second tier. And UPenn Fels, despite its focus is again second tier if not borderline 1st tier as is Duke Sanford.

You also left out HKS, which is obviously first tier.

As for UMD Maryland /UGA PADP / Georgia State AYSPS, they are fourth tier if there were to be such a category, maybe even 5th tier for Georgia State.

You'd put U Mich Ford in the same category as UW Evans? Third tier? Yet Duke is first tier? Are we talking rankings, or difficulty of admission?

I can only speak on the America vs GW debate... My research shows that GW is a considerably better school and better program. (Take a look at alumni) Also, I am confused about the US News Ranks you mention. The one I saw had American and GW tied at #14. However, these ranks were done in 2008 so I feel like they are extremely outdated. Take a look: http://grad-schools....ffairs-rankings

Take US News rankings with a grain of salt. Illustration: Maxwell is ranked consistently #1, in front of Princeton, Harvard, Berkeley, etc. I seem to recall that the rankings rely substantially on surveys of policy graduates. I'd guess the fact that Maxwell has been around the longest, and has huge cohorts has a lot to do with it's place at #1. Neither of which are good measures of quality, obviously.

For what it's worth, I think about competitiveness in terms of tiers, too. To me, it goes like this:

Tier 1: Princeton>Berkeley>Chicago>Harvard>Georgetown>Columbia

Tier 2: Michigan>Duke>CMU>UT Austin>NYU Wagner (less sure)>Cornell>GW

Tier 3: (Starts to break down in my mind) Maxwell, Wisconsin, UCLA, USC, UMD, Indiana SPEA, American,

Tier 4: (Regionals) Minnesota, UGA, SUNY, Portland State, etc.

Now that I look over my lists, its interesting how I've correlated competitiveness with quality in my thinking. I don't think I'd shift these lists around much if you asked me to substitute "quality" for "competitiveness." I guess from our prospective, it's easier to estimate competitiveness that to estimate quality.

A few things I take into consideration re quality, is the strength of the Econ program (since we take more econ classes than any other single subject), the strength of the university "brand" for producing quality graduate degrees, and the strength of other departments (business, law, public health, enviro, etc). Geography matters to an extent, (American is Tier 3 quality, but Tier 1 if you want a career in federal government. Regarding working for the Feds, I've also looked at the number of PMF finalists that each school produces over the past few years. Princeton, which is #1 in quality in my book, sends 3-8 PMFs per year. American typically sends 25-30. So there are more important things than quality if you have well-defined objectives (make PMF, launch federal career).

[method]

You can use petersons.com to check a lot of the admissions figures. It's not always exactly indicative, because some of the statistics are an aggregate of multiple degree programs, like the AM, MPP and PhD at Chicago, but it's a great place to check out.

After looking at a lot of the top programs, my general impression of admissions difficulty is that it's WWS....HKS...............................................everyone else. There is some variance in the big pack (Sanford is harder, Harris is easier), but I think below the two big dogs it's kind of a wash. Picking schools becomes very much about which subject area and geographic job placement you're interested in, rather than mixing reaches and safety schools for admissions purposes.

[Burnt Orange]

I think the two posters above have great points. I would include Cal Berkeley into @method's list of tier 1 schools, making it WWS, HKS, and GSPP.

I agree with @state_school'12 that tier 2 is quite large. Though my list is a little different and in no particular order: Sanford, Harris, SIPA, Maxwell, GPPI, GW TSPPPA, Heinz, CIPA, Wagner, LBJ, SPEA, USC Price, and Ford (though I'm not sure why some folks here don't like Ford. I didn't apply there but looks like a great program.) We could probably break down tier 2 a little more but I don't think it's necessary.

"Tier 2" programs are certainly nothing sneeze at - renowned programs, strong placements, proud alums, and very prestigious to fairly prestigious brand-name universities. In fact, many of us only applied to schools from that second list, myself included. I definitely missed a couple of schools. But you get the idea.

One reality for those of us applying to MPA/MPP/IR programs is the lack of marketing, rankings, consultants, literature, and publications on our admissions process and school selection as compared to MBA programs. There are so many publications that produce MBA rankings that many schools are solidly perceived as top 3, 5, 10, 20, or simply "top tier" as a result of the general consensus between the rankings. Moreover, they are published annually and account for so many variables. Consequently, they are so much more comprehensive than what we are working with (a very flawed and seemingly always outdated USNRW).

[Hanson's Fan]

http://www.fandm.edu/government/graduate-school-information/graduate-programs

I think difficulty should somehow be reflected based on the above link. And whether you get the funding or not from the same-level schools should tell us something in addition to the difficulty.

[state_school'12]

That's a pretty good list, I think. Thanks for sharing.

[Su1993]

Hi everyone,

I am currently pursuing my MPA at SUNY Albany - Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy. I have applied to NYU Wagner and GWU Trachtenberg for a transfer for my second academic year. For all of you folks here, do you think GWU MPA is more difficult to get into compared to NYU because of its location? 

I applied to NYU on the feb 15th deadline, my decision should come around April 12th. I heard back from GWU and I didn’t get in. I am wondering if I should lose hope for NYU as well or there’s still a chance. Describing my profile below.

Undergraduate (Economics)  from a top university in Pakistan, GPA: 2.83

Years out of undergrad: 1

Work Experience: 1 year - Workied for an NGO and a government ministry as an intern in Pakistan and currently working as a fellow at New York State Department of Health, Policy Department. 

Current MPA GPA: 3.83 

Strength of SOP: I believe both were good, if not extraordinary. I wrote to the point, addressing the prompt of the essays and essays definitely sound honest. 

Strength of LOR: one from my supervisor at NYSDOH, one from my professor at SUNY Albany and last one from my academic advisor at SUNY Albany. 

[Su1993]

Just now, Su1993 said:

Hi everyone,

I am currently pursuing my MPA at SUNY Albany - Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy. I have applied to NYU Wagner and GWU Trachtenberg for a transfer for my second academic year. For all of you folks here, do you think GWU MPA is more difficult to get into compared to NYU because of its location? 

I applied to NYU on the feb 15th deadline, my decision should come around April 12th. I heard back from GWU and I didn’t get in. I am wondering if I should lose hope for NYU as well or there’s still a chance. Describing my profile below.

Undergraduate (Economics)  from a top university in Pakistan, GPA: 2.83

Years out of undergrad: 1

Work Experience: 1 year - Workied for an NGO and a government ministry as an intern in Pakistan and currently working as a fellow at New York State Department of Health, Policy Department. 

Current MPA GPA: 3.83 

Strength of SOP: I believe both were good, if not extraordinary. I wrote to the point, addressing the prompt of the essays and essays definitely sound honest. 

Strength of LOR: one from my supervisor at NYSDOH, one from my professor at SUNY Albany and last one from my academic advisor at SUNY Albany. 

I guess my question is, do I stand a chance at NYU Wagner or not?