LoRs from abroad - what to do?

[Kalmar]

I'm doing my BSc in the UK where degrees are 3 years long. This means I'll be applying half way through my 3rd (and final) year. We don't have professors teaching our seminars; they're led by PhD students in their final years. Only lectures are taught by Professors. I'm really worried about how to solve this problem, it seems US applicants stand much stronger by having an additional year in college and closer interaction with professors... I'm applying for a free-standing MA btw, not a PhD.

1. Must LoRs be from Professors (i.e. established academics)? or

2. Could I theoretically get people with whom I've worked on extra-academics to write a LoR if they're PhD students? I know two people who could write amazing LoRs if that's the case, but they're only PhD students.

3. I know one highly relevant academic very well but he hasn't taught me - he's more of a mentor. Would he work?

4. I also have a professional working relationship with the Dean, who is a very well respected academic. He wouldn't be able to write about my academic ability but certainly write about my working ability etc. Would he work?

I've got my academic advisor who's a pretty well-established academic and who would write a very good LoR. Then there's the person I'm hoping will supervise my undergraduate dissertation next academic year. But the problem here is that he will only have known me for 3 months by the time I'm applying, which is next to nothing. He is the key figure to get a LoR from as he's been at my top two schools either as a PhD student or a Professor, so he'll most likely know a large percentage of the faculty, including admissions tutors.

What to do?

Edited December 27, 2011 by Kalmar

[Spriteling]

I am applying from the UK as well. I used my director of studies (who is also my dissertation supervisor) and one of my lecturers.

Make an effort to get to know your professors; stop by their offices to ask for help/have a discussion about the subject/just chat. If there is a specific person you'd like to supervise your dissertation, you should start talking to him now. Then you'll have a much longer relationship with him.

I wouldn't get a letter from a PhD student if you don't absolutely have to. It will carry a lot less weight.

[MCS_aspirant]

The LoRs cannot be from PhD students, NEVER.

It can certainly be from an academic advisor, or a work supervisor, or a research scientist (or even an experienced post-doc). The professor certainly does not need to teach a class to write a letter. I would certainly get the letter from the Dean and the academic advisor. If the third letter is from a professor who has taught, that would mean you have a great combo of 3 letters from 3 different perspectives.

In the US, most of the introductory classes have graduate students as discussion leader (it varies from school to school slightly). The lectures are usually taught by professors. There is certainly an advantage of having one extra year, but there is also an advantage of getting your degree early and staying younger. I don't think you should feel at a disadvantage due to your 3 years degree.

Getting LoRs take a lof effort, and usually people plan early in choosing classes and targeting potential referees. Once I wanted to go to study abroad to Imperial College, and I found out the whole course schedule is pre-set. That made me go to China instead of UK. If all the UK universities work the same way, it would be a little bit of a hassle in targeting letter writers. I sympathize ...

[Banstaraí]

Just going through the threads and decided to put in my two cents on this one.

Ever considered taking on a gap year? While I sympathize with wanting to "get on with things" the application schedule for graduate school seems to give those who apply a little after graduation an edge in terms of knowing professors and what you can send in terms of your writing sample. Especially as it sounds like your ug diss supervisor will be a good source, but you need to let him get to know you and your work better. The only thing I would caution with this route is making certain that you make good use of that year- full-time job, internship in your field, some sort of volunteer organization. Good luck!

[TakeruK]

The best LORs come from people who supervise your research work and thus can speak to your research potential/ability. I would recommend that you go with the others' advice (i.e. use the profs you do have, not the PhD students) for your LORs for this upcoming application season. If it doesn't work out, then a good idea would be to take a "gap year" but fill it doing research work -- then by the following application season, you would have a much stronger LOR from your dissertation supervisor and maybe even another research LOR.

[moody]

Letters really must be from professors. One possibility in some situations (e.g., you took a large lecture from a professor that was accompanied by a lab led by a PhD student) is to ask for a joint letter, or to have both of them write for you. The letter from the PhD student, though, would be "extra" unless it is also signed by the professor. The thinking is something like: "We want a letter from someone to attest that this student will succeed in our program, so the letter writer should be someone who truly knows what goes into that kind of success – i.e., should have a PhD and (ideally) have taught PhD students."

"3. I know one highly relevant academic very well but he hasn't taught me - he's more of a mentor. Would he work?"

Potentially. If you've discussed research with him (i.e., the relationship is not just social), then this might be a good bet.

"4. I also have a professional working relationship with the Dean, who is a very well respected academic. He wouldn't be able to write about my academic ability but certainly write about my working ability etc. Would he work?"

This is more doubtful. They really want someone to attest to your research ability, not your personality (though I'm sure that's great too )

"I've got my academic advisor who's a pretty well-established academic and who would write a very good LoR."

Definitely ask this person.

"Then there's the person I'm hoping will supervise my undergraduate dissertation next academic year. But the problem here is that he will only have known me for 3 months by the time I'm applying, which is next to nothing. He is the key figure to get a LoR from as he's been at my top two schools either as a PhD student or a Professor, so he'll most likely know a large percentage of the faculty, including admissions tutors."

Assuming you've established some relationship with this person before letters are due, ask this person as well. It actually seems sort of odd to not receive a letter from the undergraduate thesis advisor.

[herbie77]

I have a similar question... Many of you say not to get letters from Ph.D. students unless you absolutely have too. I was a research assistant for a Ph.D. student so I was planning on getting a letter from her. Is this also not a good idea? I don't have many other options.

[TakeruK]

The PhD student has a supervisor -- can you get one from that prof instead?