Coming from a Real small school

[EffNine]

Hey folks,

So what I am trying to gather here is if I'm already a lost cause, and should quit the dream and keep my job, or whether to keep working while trying to put together a worthy application (if this is at all possible at this point), and try for a Master's program to prove myself there since I won't be able to get into PhD program yet. That's what we're dealing with. My problem lies in small school, ok grades, and not a real philosophy department there I kind of had to take classes elsewhere to make it seem feasible. stats are as follows:

Roberts Wesleyan College GPA 3.1

GRE: Have not attempted yet

Letters of Reccomendation: would be coming from people outside the field, and or nobody known.

Can I make this work? My Plan is to get a great GRE score, take some undergrad, take some grad classes, and then apply in a year and half. I don't want to wait too long since I turn 27 this spring. Hopefully I can squeeze some letters from that grad class. I'm just looking for anyone to tell me whether or not I'll be wasting my time trying to get into a Philosophy Masters program, even after I do all this work.

thanks,

Ely

[bellefast]

I think that is a good start and you should try to apply to both PhD and M.A programs. I don't think it will be a waste. I think it is worth trying than to get older and think shoulda coulda woulda been different if only I did this... Good luck and I wish you the best!

[juilletmercredi]

The size of your school, or whether it's well-known or not, doesn't matter as much in graduate admissions - since I can't tell whether by "small" you mean literally small or just not well-known. What matters more is what you did there. I'm not saying that the undergraduate reputation of your college doesn't matter at *all* - and it may matter more in some programs than others - but what I'm saying is that the most important factor is your portfolio of classes, research, grades, scores letters, and your statement.

Most people have recommendations from people who aren't well-known in the field because there are far more unknown people teaching undergrad classes and involving undergrads in their research than known people doing so. I do think that you should try to get recommendations from people within the field of philosophy (you said you took classes at other places to fulfill the requirements, yes?) - at least 1 - but lots of people don't go to graduate school for what they studied in undergrad, so it's not uncommon to have related-but-not exactly recommendation letters from professors.

Basically what I'm saying is - at least try! Don't shut yourself out. This go round, I would apply broadly, picking your top-choice PhD programs based on fit and also applying to a good-sized number of master's programs. If you get into a PhD program - great! If not, and you get into an MA program, you can apply again in 2+ years. The time and money are an investment, so don't think of it as a waste even if you don't get in.

[wannabeaphd]

Well, I mean, don't limit yourself... but my advice is to shoot for some good/realistic MA programs at large well-regarded departments in your field. Also try to identify some PhD programs that you think you are a good candidate for in terms of fit. Fit can trump other aspects of your application, but -- comming from a very small but awesome school myself -- I personally found success with getting the MA enroute to the PhD. I think that peopel from larger schools with well-regarded departments are better positioned to get right ito a PhD program, but that dosen't mean it can't work out for you too.

[Hillary Emick]

I have a similar background. I got my undergrad degree from a tiny state college. I had strong LOR's from my undergrad professors, who are great professors but none of them are involved in research in the field I am entering or have a lot of publications or big research grants/projects. I still got a very good offer from a well ranked school.

I think in a case like ours there may be a little more weight to the GRE scores as an indicator of how you stack up against a larger pool of college grads. I also have several years of professional experience in a somewhat related field, and my LOR from my employer and my professional experience were very helpful.

You may want to apply to some master's programs to cover all your bases, but a spot in a PhD program isn't necessarily out of your reach. I think it helps to focus on cultivating a relationship with POI's whose work you are genuinely interested in.