Buffalo application feedback and poetics angst...

[LivePoetry123]

So, as you all might know from my earlier posts, I am obsessed with the Poetics program at Buffalo. I didn't get in so I emailed them and asked for feedback on my application, as I will most likely be applying again next year. I was both pleased and disappointed with the response I got back from the director of graduate admissions, and could use some insight on what it all might mean for me.

Here it is:

"We don't usually offer feedback because we receive so many applications. It would be impossible to respond to every request. However, I do remember your file pretty well and thought it was very strong. The problem was that that there seemed to be a "disconnect" between your statement, which highlighted Poetics, and your writing sample, which was about Zizek and Kafka, I believe. You seemed like a much better fit for the psychoanalysis parts of our program. It wasn't clear to the committee why you were mainly interested in Poetics.

We receive very strong applicants in Poetics, and given your writing sample, it was difficult for you to compete with them.

I would suggest either changing your statement to say that you are mostly interested in modernism and theory, or changing your writing sample to reflect you interests in modern poetry.

I hope this helps."

First off, I'm very happy that the main problem is something so potentially fix-able. I mean, at least he didn't say that my writing and argumentation were fundamentally flawed, or my grades too low, or my LORs were not complimentary, or anything like that. This, and the fact that he remembered my application so well even though they don't usually give feedback, does give me hope for next application season (is this false hope though!?!? ughhhh...)

However, here's my issue: I love Buffalo's poetics program so much because they seem to have a much broader conception of "poetics" than poetics tracks or concentrations at other universities. It seems to me that they concieve of poetics in a more theoretical way than others, and not so necessarily tied to "poetry" as a genre. This from their website: "[the poetics program] takes poetics in its broadest sense as the theoretical discourses that define, modify and inform the term poiesis as construction and making." The difference can even be seen in the title: with Buffalo its just "poetics", while other programs have tracks designated as "poetry and poetics," and accordingly seem very much tied to poetry as a genre in their investigations of poetics.

Its not that I don't want to study poetry, but I am mostly interested in looking at the poetics of texts that are not usually studied in those terms, such as the novel and even theoretical texts. My writing sample was on Kafka, yes-- but it was primarily about poetics, or so I thought (!) Here's a sentence from it which might clarify that. "Both Althusser's "ideology and ideological state apparatuses" and Kafka's __The Trial__ present interpellation in the form of a narrative. This allows us to consider interpellation from the perspective of how and to what effect the narrative of it is constructed; that is, it allows us to investigate the poetics of interpellation." This was actually the title of my writing sample: "The poetics of interpellation: Kafka as critique of Althusser."

And then here are a few things that I said in my SOP which, I thought, clarified why I was using that particular writing sample, and not, as this guy seemed to expect, one on modernist poetry.

"I am fascinated by the discourses, both intrinsic and extrinsic to literary works, which speak to the nature and implications of the poetic as a category of language, thought, and experience." (I've been very influenced by Heidegger's notion of "poetic thinking"--)

"In many of my papers, I have situated the poetic as a particular mode of engagement which can fundamentally affect the subject’s navigation of the social, cultural, and political realms. I have been particularly interested in the relationship between poetic modes of interpretation and the limits and possibilities of agency within the notions of “ideology” articulated by various theorists."

"My research will have its foundation in poetry but will not be tied to poetry as a genre; I am eager to include genres less commonly analyzed in terms of poetics such as the novel and even critical theory."

So after all that, it wasn't clear to the committee how my writing sample and SOP were connected??

I guess there are two basic possibilities here:

1) I am crazy and my ideas make no sense.... and I should just suck it up and try to fit into the accepted "poetry and poetics" box

or

2) Buffalo is not actually as perfect for me as I thought because they don't get what I am trying to do and, despite their awesome website, are actually just as conventional as everyone else in their insistance on yoking "poetry" and "poetics" together-- and I should perhaps turn my attention elsewhere.

er, I guess the other option is that I actually do have a cool "area of study" going on here, but did not successfully articulate what I am going for, and they "didn't get it"...

OR:

Maybe I do not actually know what poetics IS, and everyone on this board is laughing at me right now.

Thoughts???

Would it be totally ludicrous to try to have a dialogue with the grad admissions director (who emailed me) about this? He seems very nice and helpful from his email, but I do NOT want to give the impression that I think I should have been admitted. I don't. I just want to mull things over and explore whether Buffalo would really be right for me.

P.S. This post is also meant to encourage anyone else who got rejected from their dream program to ask for feedback on their application. The worst that can happen is they will say "we don't do that", and you could end up getting quite useful advice. This has really made me think, and given me some hope following 3 disheartening rejections, and its certainly a WAY different problem than I was expecting them to pinpoint. It could do you a lot of good.

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

LivePoetry-- I feel you. Getting rejected from a top choice is the worst feeling. I give you majour points for asking for feedback though! I haven't quite worked up the courage yet.

Your research sounds very interesting and nontraditional for your field. As someone with similarly uncommon research interests, I know how difficult it can be to try and articulate what you're doing and how it can complement a program's existing research interests. I think trying to mold your interests into the accepted "poetry and poetics" parameters would be unfaithful to yourself, though it is so very tempting to do that when faced with the horror of application season.

It is always possible that SUNY Buffalo was not as good as fit as you thought it was. I did my undergrad there (though I did not dabble in poetics at all) and I've noticed there is a certain distance from things that as said vs things that actually happen there. Now, I absolutely love the English department there, but my experiences from class to class, professor to professor, were completely different. It's entirely possible that the people on your particular AdComm are the type of people who aren't involved in the area you are. So regardless of how well you matched the program on paper, these people might not have been able to look past their existing perceptions of their field. Which adcomms are supposed to do, I imagine, but with so many applications, how much of that can they actually get done?

Which goes to your third point-- maybe you didn't articulate well what you were doing. I personally think you did, but maybe with in the chaos of applications, it didn't become clear to them.

I don't think it's weird to discuss this with the DGS-- you really like the program, and thought it was a good fit (who is the DGS out of curiosity, Dr. Hammill?). Especially if you decide to reapply, it might help you having a rapport with him. And feedback from applications can only make our applications stronger.

I hope this helps a little! I really like your area... If I had a department, I would totally accept you into my program.

[anxious_aspirant]

Gawd. You now have me worried about this SOP / writing sample thing. I remember this debate in another forum - should we follow professors' advice that you should submit your best writing no matter what, or should we be tailoring it to the SOP (or vice versa)?

The good thing is - you made an impression. Among however many applicants, your content was fresh in mind. Could count that as a plus!

I think your application of poetics makes sense, to the degree that you explain it here. I find Buffalo's feedback a bit odd. Maybe this is just philosophical difference between schools? I remember my undergrad institution had a Mythopoetics seminar, a study in modernism, that paired poetry and novels (Mostly Eliot and Joyce, I think) in order to study of narrative in general - it satisfied the upper-level theory requirement, though. Maybe you would be better situated in theory? Might give you more room to go your own direction?

Edited February 29, 2012 by anxious_aspirant

[LivePoetry123]

Thanks for the support! Fiona, I am glad that you like my "area"-- such as it is. I have the feeling that the next year is going to involve lots and lots of soul-searching about what the heck it is I actually want to study. I realize now how very unclear it is, even to me. Yes, the DGS is Dr. Hammill.

I'm interested to hear more of your impressions of Buffalo, if you don't mind. In particular, can you elaborate on what you mean by this? "there is a certain distance from things that as said vs things that actually happen there." I'm also interested to hear your perception of the grad students there, just sort of the feeling of the cohort and how ppl. interact with each other and stuff (that is, if you've come into contact with them at all). That is quite important to me.

anxious_aspirant, I think your insight that I might be better situated in theory is a good one. I've always thought that I wanted to study poetics and even, ya know, poetry, but during my MA my highest marks were in my theory courses, and my lowest mark was in... 20th century poetry. And I got the low mark because the professor didn't like my theoretical/philosophical approach to the poems. Yeah, definitely have some re-thinking to do...

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

Thanks for the support! Fiona, I am glad that you like my "area"-- such as it is. I have the feeling that the next year is going to involve lots and lots of soul-searching about what the heck it is I actually want to study. I realize now how very unclear it is, even to me. Yes, the DGS is Dr. Hammill.

I'm interested to hear more of your impressions of Buffalo, if you don't mind. In particular, can you elaborate on what you mean by this? "there is a certain distance from things that as said vs things that actually happen there." I'm also interested to hear your perception of the grad students there, just sort of the feeling of the cohort and how ppl. interact with each other and stuff (that is, if you've come into contact with them at all). That is quite important to me.

I think you do know what you want to study! But I also think--no wait, I know--the application process is a brutal, brutal thing that makes us question our value and worth as scholars or even people in general. A friend of my mine is doing very well at a top 25 program, but he still doesn't feel like he belongs even though he's excelling. The process haunts us all. But I do think eventually we're better for going through it!

And I'd be happy to answer your questions about Buffalo! What I mean about the distance isn't that things that are said don't get done was more aimed at the school itself than the English department. UB has, for lack of a better name, "illusions of grandeur," in my opinion. In my years at UB, I've noticed a steady decline of their quality of education in general, but instead of acknowledging the issues, the administration upped undergraduate enrollment and decided to pour a TON of money into the med school. Now, I don't think improving the quality of the med school is a bad thing, but I do think it's a bad thing when it's done in lieu of restoring the quality of undergrad education, because undergrads are the lifeblood of the place. The English department can be a little scatter brained at time (because after all, it IS the English department), but they really make an effort to fulfill all their obligations and if a professor forgets to do something for you, an email or a visit to their office is enough to fix the problem.

Consistently, English has been UB's highest ranked department, but this goes largely unacknowledged by the administration. I didn't even know it, until I visited the department when I was admitted as an undergrad, and I'm Buffalo born and raised! None of the administration's bullshit exists in the department. The people are gifted, intelligent, and approachable. Throughout my application process, my professors really went the extra mile to help me out with SOPs, writing samples, and helped me keep my marbles when I thought I was losing it.

And the grad students are a great, tight-knit group. As an undergrad, I felt a little alienated because I was one of the very, very few who wanted to pursue academia in my classes, but when I audited a grad class last semester, I was blown away by how amiable and supportive everyone was. When they learned I was applying, they told me about programs friends were at, helped me find more GRE study sources, and made me feel welcome in general, even though I was an undergrad squatter! My class got together a few times outside of class, and people were always hanging around to talk about things before and after class itself. The English and Comp Lit programs are pretty close, and there was a lot of crossover with both students and content. I audited the course partially to see if I was up to the rigeur of grad level courses, and I must confess the atmosphere of the grad students made me feel more certain that applying to schools was the right choice (I was worried grad school was all about people trying to sabotage and out-do each other).

If I didn't feel like I've already spent enough time at UB, I would definitely want to join the department!

[pippin23]

Hi-- I'm also interested in poetics and had been looking at the SUNY buffalo program earlier this season. The impression I got of it from my professors, faculty/student profiles, and course offerings was that it was indeed largely geared towards the study of the poetics of modern/ contemporary/ avant-garde poetry. It also caters to students who are both poets and scholars of poetry-- so there's a creative component to the program (also because poets like Robert Creeley/ Charles Bernstein founded it, etc). An interesting program, but its niche was not my thing, and tbh it doesn't sound like it's yours.

I don't think you have your definition of poetics wrong at all; we talk all the time about the "poetics of the novel," etc. I do doubt that any program is geared towards the study of "poetics" as a whole, not applied to poetry, because that would be too broad and undefined to be a distinct focus.

From my limited, meager perspective, just based off the little I know and what you wrote, it does sound like the program wasn't right for you, and you'd probably be happier elsewhere. Maybe look into theory-heavy programs like Johns Hopkins Humanities Center? Or take a look at grad student profiles at different places and see if any seem parallel or analogous to your interests? Good luck!

Edited March 2, 2012 by pippin23

[LivePoetry123]

Thank you both for the insights and support.

Fiona, it is good to hear more about Buffalo's program.. .thank you very much!

Pippin23, I think you may be right about Buffalo not being as good a fit for me as I thought, in terms of their application of poetics. However, the other main reason I was interested in Buffalo was for the creative component of the program. That's what makes it hard to let go of the program completely, because I do write poetry and want to do more of that in grad school and interact with people who also write, and to have my creative and academic work be very intertwined. That is initially what made me so excited about Buffalo. I like experimental and avant-garde poetry... to a degree. I'm realizing that the kind of poetry Buffalo emphasizes may be a little TOO avant-garde for me, in terms of what I want my work to be like and what I want to engage with. Its strange, its like I'm more interested in the IDEA of avant-garde poetry than the actual reality of it.

Anyway, Pippin23, I'd be interested to hear where you ended up applying and if you found any good places for poetics, if you're willing to share that.