LivePoetry123

Thank you!

I am considering sending in the writing sample that I wrote for last year's applications to some journals. I spent so long on it and was rejected from everywhere so I feel like all the time I spent on it was wasted... so I could at least try to get it published somewhere right?? I'm taking a year "out" to do some traveling and will be re-applying for 2014. At that point I'll probably put together a different writing sample, so I just want to get some use out of this one. I'm sick of bothering the professors who wrote my recommendations so I'm wondering if any of you could recommend a good journal to submit to. The paper is on Althusser and Kafka, basically. Its not really an "Althusserian reading of Kafka"-- its actually more like a theory paper in which I extensively discuss Kafka's "The Trial" in order to make a theoretical argument. There is some Zizek in there, and the whole thing is underpinned by Heidegger's idea of "poetic thinking"-- I talk about "the poetic" as a certain mode of engaging with experience, and relate that to Althusser's seminal formulation of ideological interpellation. So as you can see its a bit off the beaten track, maybe a little crazy. Any respected theory journals out there which cater to discussions of poetics (poetics broadly speaking). I don't really know how high (or low) to shoot either. I have an MA and did very well in my MA program and I have 1 publication already. But I have not been accepted to any PhD programs... Is "poetics today" a good choice? Thanks so much. Best of luck to those of you starting classes soon, and those currently working on applications!!

What DO people feel are the current critical trends right now in literature? If I had to pick one thing I'd say "cultural studies." But this actually seems more like a major critical turn than a trend (as some departments are even calling themselves "literary and cultural studies" now). This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately... I don't really like this trend/turn and that worries me--makes me think I don't really have a place in an English PhD after all. I'm curious to see what others think about the current critical trends.

another thought: since I've been on the "academic" side of things for so long I think that really comes through in my work. My poems tend to be a bit philosophical (though not in a stiff, dry way or anything...) and I just wonder if that sort of approach is looked down on my MFA programs at all (somewhere I heard that they could tend to be "anti-academic.") Are they more focused on autobiographical writing and stuff like that? I actually think my work is somewhere between autobiographical and philosophical... but it is more tipped towards philosophical. I'm very interested in explorations of what poetry is, what the aesthetic experience is, etc... through poetry itself. I'm obsessed with Martin Heidegger's notion of "poetic thinking." Could this kind of thing be supported at an MFA program?

Hello all, I have recently been considering applying for MFA programs (in poetry) for fall 2013. I have an MA in English (literature) and applied for English PhDs this year, and was rejected from all of them. I will likely try again for the PhDs at some time, maybe even for 2013 along with my MFA applications, but its become clear to me that writing poetry is my primary passion right now. Being able to write and teach poetry for a living would be a dream, and I had always planned to approach it "obliquely", ie by studying literature and writing poetry when I could squeeze it in, but I've recently had the thought that maybe a more "direct" approach might be better. I have never taken a creative writing class before, and have only showed my poetry to a few close friends (who have been very enthusiastic about it). As a total newbie to the MFA world, I'm wondering about a few things. --is there a list somewhere of funded MFA programs? I only want to consider programs where I could be fully funded. (Too much debt already from BA, MA.) --recommendations: I have 4 professors from my MA who wrote recommendations for my PhD apps and who I know could speak very highly of my academic abilities, work ethic, etc., but they've never seen my poetry and I don't particularly want to show it to them. Would it be ok to just have them write about me as a student, in general, and just let the poetry evaluation happen when the adcomm looks at my writing sample? Or do I HAVE to show these professors my poetry? --I'm entirely self-educated as a poet and thus have had no "professional" feedback on my work. It would be nice, before applying to MFA programs, to get some feedback from someone who is in this world and could tell me honestly whether I even have a chance, or not to bother, etc.... because I really have NO idea. I'm working in Korea right now so don't really have access to universities where people speak fluent English. Is there any sort of online forum or something where MFA- type people can anonymously share work, provide feedback, etc? Thanks so much for any help you can give me!!

This also might be of interest to you. Baylor University has an interdisciplinary program in literature and religion-- it looks like they do both PhDs and MAs. I think it is a Christian school but I don't really know anything about it. http://www.baylor.edu/english/index.php?id=45821

Just want to agree with what's been said. Don't worry, coffeecurls-- when I looked up my favorite MA professor on RMP he had extremely low ratings and the stuff that was said about him was completely unrecognizable to me-- I felt like they were talking about a different person. Not to mention the fact that over half the comments were things like "he's really skinny and has an annoying voice," stupid crap like that. So yeah, you can kind of see what type of people post there... it makes me so angry. I mean these profs dedicate their lives to learning and teaching and they get idiot comments on their appearance in return.... sorry I tend to go on rants about RMP. But even if the comments were more reasonable you really still need to meet the professors yourself. Its such a matter of taste. I've had a history of liking professors almost no one else liked and disliking profs that everyone liked.

This varies-- I did my MA in Canada and at my school they had a "teaching class" which you could take for credit towards your degree. I didn't take it but my friends who did found it useful. They had some instruction in teaching and then got to teach some undergrad classes while being observed and got feedback on their teaching from peers and from the instructor. But yeah, i think there are less opportunities for the kind of TA-ships we are familiar with in the US. Also, to the OP: I wouldn't recommend applying for PhDs during a one-year MA, simply become of the time constraint that places on you. Cramming an MA into a year is hard enough, but if you are trying to do PhD apps on top of that, your seminar papers are almost sure to suffer for it. I mean even if you don't do badly on them, they are sure to be less than they could be. Then you've defeated the whole point of the MA, which was to put you in a better position for your PhD apps. I'd recommend just trying to do really, really well in your MA classes and taking another year out to apply. I started trying to apply for PhDs during my MA and gave up in despair, and really regretted the time I'd wasted on even beginning to apply. I totally understand the urge to push through and not spend any more time out of school, but I think some patience will serve you well here.

"You may also consider looking into PhDs from schools that are more geared toward teaching than research." "I'm sure there are some smaller programs that are geared mainly toward training teacher and not researchers, and they would probably be really excited about a student who wants to teach" Yes, I think this is true. From my limited research I get the sense that the PhDs at University of Oregon and University of Washington emphasize teaching quite a lot, especially Oregon. These would definitely be good schools for you to check out down the line if you end up needing/ wanting to do a PhD. Or if you become really interested in their programs, you might even email profs there and see how they'd look at a Vermont MA. But yes, I agree with others who say go for it if its funded. I went into my MA not knowing what I wanted to focus on (at ALL) and not knowing whether I wanted to do a PhD. Just the experience of doing an MA cleared up so much for me. I cannot possibly imagine going straight from undergrad to PhD, but maybe that's just me....

I'm rejected too I was pretty excited about some of the faculty there, but I already lived in Oregon for 4 years when I did my undergrad so the location didn't excite me that much--I always want to experience new places, even though I liked Oregon a lot. I know, I know, we aren't supposed to think about location.... but I do. Well that was my last school to hear back from~~ I'll be going for 2013. I strangely feel much more emotionally balanced about all my rejections than I thought I would. Its very unnerving. Maybe I'm just in denial, haha!!

hmm.... can we revisit the topic of "fun" again for a little bit? (don't hate me...). I did an MA so I like to think that I've experienced a bit of what grad school life is like. During my MA, I definitely had fun, and I mean that both in the sense that my readings and classes were fun for me because I was interested in them, AND in the sense that I met awesome people and I often went out and partied with these awesome people. Now, I did have the luxury of being able to take 2 years to do my MA so that gave me a bit more free time, but some of my friends did it in a year and still had time for... fun. Some of the PhD students I got to know at my school were the most "fun" people I've ever met. I guess I have been thinking about this issue a lot of late as I consider whether I really want to do a PhD, and I've definitely had my moments of thinking "oh my god, do I REALLY want to lock myself in a library for the next 5+ years?" But I think its important to re-examine that whole notion of grad school being a time when one has to exclusively lock oneself in the library. Yes, during my MA I definitely worked more than my friends who had 9-5 jobs. Yes, I pretty much worked all day during the week. But I definitely took days off, and those days off were infinitely more fun and satisfying than my current "days off" in my "real world job." I think this was because I was hanging out with people who shared my interests and passions, AND because what we were doing was so damn hard. Being in a difficult situation together definitely breeds a whole different kind of atmosphere. There are always things to talk about. Things are more lively and intense. And what are we really MISSING by working those extra 4-8 hours a day? Most people I know who work 9-5 jobs go home after work and watch mindless TV shows or mindlessly surf the internet. I'm not degrading those things at all, but c'mon guys, its not like we're missing a bunch of rockin' weekday parties by being in grad school. If we do socialize LESS, I'd like to think that our social interactions are more high-quality. For me, quality is infinitely more important than quantity when it comes to relationships. There were definitely people in my cohort who locked themselves in the library and didn't do much else, and they didn't actually do better in their classes than those of us who went out and got drunk every weekend. I don't think the mind can actually be "on" 24/7, despite our best intentions. The job market being what it is, I would definitely not do a PhD unless I thought that the process would be inherently "worth it" and yes, enjoyable. Based on my MA experience, I'm pretty confident it will be.

I'm still waiting on Oregon, but I'm pretty much in this thread because I don't have much hope of getting an acceptance after all the rejections~~ Anyway, just wanted to really encourage you all to ask for feedback on your applications, especially at schools you think you may be applying to again. I posted about this elsewhere, but just wanted to reiterate that I got some very useful feedback from Buffalo that was quite different from anything I expected or could have figured out by myself, and what they said also gave me much more hope for going into round 2 (the DGS said they don't usually give feedback because they can't remember everyone's file, but he remembered my file very well and had thought it was very strong, etc). Of course, a lot of schools will simply tell you they can't provide any feedback, but its definitely worth trying. Fiona, to answer your question about how did we know we wanted to do round 2, I'll say that for me it was sort of a "subconscious" thing. What I mean is that, after traveling in SE Asia for the last 2 months and experiencing a very, well, non-academic side of life, I was having all these questioning thoughts about whether I really want to be in academia and whether its really right for me. I received my rejection letters while I was traveling and was so surprised that I wasn't as devastated as I thought I'd be. Then when I got back, for some reason I just kept going on gradcafe again. And I realized that I was totally thinking about round 2, in spite of myself. It was like this other part of my mind took over. Now I'm totally making all these round-2 plans, so I'm like, ok, I guess this is what I'm doing... weird. And I really don't know what else to do, so there ya go. The other thing is that I really did not feel that my applications this year were the best they could be. I didn't study for the GRE, and while my scores were ok, I think they could be better if I studied. I was super busy and just did not have the time I needed to get my SOP and writing sample to where I was happy with them. I mean, I know that as lit. majors we are never happy with our work, but I truly think I could make everything much better with a whole year to re-work it. This is also a good indicator, to me, that I should go for round 2. I agree with Venti that your waitlist indicates a lot of hope for you. I say go for it!

Thank you both for the insights and support. Fiona, it is good to hear more about Buffalo's program.. .thank you very much! Pippin23, I think you may be right about Buffalo not being as good a fit for me as I thought, in terms of their application of poetics. However, the other main reason I was interested in Buffalo was for the creative component of the program. That's what makes it hard to let go of the program completely, because I do write poetry and want to do more of that in grad school and interact with people who also write, and to have my creative and academic work be very intertwined. That is initially what made me so excited about Buffalo. I like experimental and avant-garde poetry... to a degree. I'm realizing that the kind of poetry Buffalo emphasizes may be a little TOO avant-garde for me, in terms of what I want my work to be like and what I want to engage with. Its strange, its like I'm more interested in the IDEA of avant-garde poetry than the actual reality of it. Anyway, Pippin23, I'd be interested to hear where you ended up applying and if you found any good places for poetics, if you're willing to share that.

Thanks for the support! Fiona, I am glad that you like my "area"-- such as it is. I have the feeling that the next year is going to involve lots and lots of soul-searching about what the heck it is I actually want to study. I realize now how very unclear it is, even to me. Yes, the DGS is Dr. Hammill. I'm interested to hear more of your impressions of Buffalo, if you don't mind. In particular, can you elaborate on what you mean by this? "there is a certain distance from things that as said vs things that actually happen there." I'm also interested to hear your perception of the grad students there, just sort of the feeling of the cohort and how ppl. interact with each other and stuff (that is, if you've come into contact with them at all). That is quite important to me. anxious_aspirant, I think your insight that I might be better situated in theory is a good one. I've always thought that I wanted to study poetics and even, ya know, poetry, but during my MA my highest marks were in my theory courses, and my lowest mark was in... 20th century poetry. And I got the low mark because the professor didn't like my theoretical/philosophical approach to the poems. Yeah, definitely have some re-thinking to do...

Its so hard to pick a favorite! I think that these have come to mind because they seem to have some sort of relevance to the agonizing "application/waiting/rejection/acceptance/questioning academia" process we've all been going through. We are alone until the times change and those who have betrayed come back like pilgrims to this moment when we did not yield and call this darkness poetry. --Leonard Cohen A writer is a person for whom writing is more difficult than it is for other people. --Thomas Mann

princess125: I have an MA in English and I'm currently teaching ESL at a university in Korea. The MA is what allowed me to get this job. Unfortunately I'm not crazy about the work itself but I work about 20 hours a week and have 18 weeks of paid vacation a year. I just got back from a 2-month trip around Thailand and Bali. Like I said, I pretty much hate teaching ESL (which is why I applied for PhD programs this year...) but the hours and vacation time are amazing, its an adventure and a good kind of "gap year" (or 2) in which to think about whether a PhD is right for you, and its something that will look good on your CV if you ever decide to do anything teaching-related. My friends in Korea who only have BAs work far longer hours in worse conditions, and get maybe 5 weeks of vacation if they are lucky. So the MA can definitely be an advantage in some ways.

So, as you all might know from my earlier posts, I am obsessed with the Poetics program at Buffalo. I didn't get in so I emailed them and asked for feedback on my application, as I will most likely be applying again next year. I was both pleased and disappointed with the response I got back from the director of graduate admissions, and could use some insight on what it all might mean for me. Here it is: "We don't usually offer feedback because we receive so many applications. It would be impossible to respond to every request. However, I do remember your file pretty well and thought it was very strong. The problem was that that there seemed to be a "disconnect" between your statement, which highlighted Poetics, and your writing sample, which was about Zizek and Kafka, I believe. You seemed like a much better fit for the psychoanalysis parts of our program. It wasn't clear to the committee why you were mainly interested in Poetics. We receive very strong applicants in Poetics, and given your writing sample, it was difficult for you to compete with them. I would suggest either changing your statement to say that you are mostly interested in modernism and theory, or changing your writing sample to reflect you interests in modern poetry. I hope this helps." First off, I'm very happy that the main problem is something so potentially fix-able. I mean, at least he didn't say that my writing and argumentation were fundamentally flawed, or my grades too low, or my LORs were not complimentary, or anything like that. This, and the fact that he remembered my application so well even though they don't usually give feedback, does give me hope for next application season (is this false hope though!?!? ughhhh...) However, here's my issue: I love Buffalo's poetics program so much because they seem to have a much broader conception of "poetics" than poetics tracks or concentrations at other universities. It seems to me that they concieve of poetics in a more theoretical way than others, and not so necessarily tied to "poetry" as a genre. This from their website: "[the poetics program] takes poetics in its broadest sense as the theoretical discourses that define, modify and inform the term poiesis as construction and making." The difference can even be seen in the title: with Buffalo its just "poetics", while other programs have tracks designated as "poetry and poetics," and accordingly seem very much tied to poetry as a genre in their investigations of poetics. Its not that I don't want to study poetry, but I am mostly interested in looking at the poetics of texts that are not usually studied in those terms, such as the novel and even theoretical texts. My writing sample was on Kafka, yes-- but it was primarily about poetics, or so I thought (!) Here's a sentence from it which might clarify that. "Both Althusser's "ideology and ideological state apparatuses" and Kafka's __The Trial__ present interpellation in the form of a narrative. This allows us to consider interpellation from the perspective of how and to what effect the narrative of it is constructed; that is, it allows us to investigate the poetics of interpellation." This was actually the title of my writing sample: "The poetics of interpellation: Kafka as critique of Althusser." And then here are a few things that I said in my SOP which, I thought, clarified why I was using that particular writing sample, and not, as this guy seemed to expect, one on modernist poetry. "I am fascinated by the discourses, both intrinsic and extrinsic to literary works, which speak to the nature and implications of the poetic as a category of language, thought, and experience." (I've been very influenced by Heidegger's notion of "poetic thinking"--) "In many of my papers, I have situated the poetic as a particular mode of engagement which can fundamentally affect the subject’s navigation of the social, cultural, and political realms. I have been particularly interested in the relationship between poetic modes of interpretation and the limits and possibilities of agency within the notions of “ideology” articulated by various theorists." "My research will have its foundation in poetry but will not be tied to poetry as a genre; I am eager to include genres less commonly analyzed in terms of poetics such as the novel and even critical theory." So after all that, it wasn't clear to the committee how my writing sample and SOP were connected?? I guess there are two basic possibilities here: 1) I am crazy and my ideas make no sense.... and I should just suck it up and try to fit into the accepted "poetry and poetics" box or 2) Buffalo is not actually as perfect for me as I thought because they don't get what I am trying to do and, despite their awesome website, are actually just as conventional as everyone else in their insistance on yoking "poetry" and "poetics" together-- and I should perhaps turn my attention elsewhere. er, I guess the other option is that I actually do have a cool "area of study" going on here, but did not successfully articulate what I am going for, and they "didn't get it"... OR: Maybe I do not actually know what poetics IS, and everyone on this board is laughing at me right now. Thoughts??? Would it be totally ludicrous to try to have a dialogue with the grad admissions director (who emailed me) about this? He seems very nice and helpful from his email, but I do NOT want to give the impression that I think I should have been admitted. I don't. I just want to mull things over and explore whether Buffalo would really be right for me. P.S. This post is also meant to encourage anyone else who got rejected from their dream program to ask for feedback on their application. The worst that can happen is they will say "we don't do that", and you could end up getting quite useful advice. This has really made me think, and given me some hope following 3 disheartening rejections, and its certainly a WAY different problem than I was expecting them to pinpoint. It could do you a lot of good.

Nevermind. Got it in. That was terrifying. But in any case, you were not the last applicant to Brown

"I was probably the last applicant to Brown University, just hours ago. If anyone beat me in procrastinating on submitting their writing sample please do post." Me. I'm trying to submit it right now but it keeps saying "fill in all required fields"... but I DID!!!!!! what that fuck. Its 20 minutes until midnight over there and I'm freaking out. You didn't have this problem??

yeah, the best thing would have been to never have told any of them I was applying. If (when?) I do this again, no one's gonna know except family and close friends... I think that will make the process much more sane for me!

I'm lucky that my family is actually pretty understanding, except for my Dad occasionally airing his doubts that anyone would fund a PhD student by sort of subversively bringing up the subject of the economy. The worst has really been my co-workers, who just can't for the life of them understand doing anything for non-pragmatic reasons. They all assume I'm getting a PhD "for better job security". This one lady seems to get some sort of enjoyment out of asking me, every day, "SO, have you finished your applications yet?" "Nope, not yet" "OH! why not?" I told her like 50 times that my first deadlines weren't until Dec. 15th and that I'd be working on them until then. She just does everything she can to trivialize the process. Once she asked "so, what do you even need to DO for them, besides like sending transcripts?" and wouldn't listen to my explanation. She also keeps insisting that I'm going to study "poetry", even though I've told her that poetics is more like the theory of poetry... but the one time I tried to explain that she seemed to have an allergic reaction to the word "theory" and squawked "OH! doesn't that take the MAGIC out of it? why would you want to do THAT?" and then claimed to be late to class so she wouldn't have the listen to the rest of my explanation. (I teach ESL right now, by the way). Another time she suggested doing a Phd online so that I could keep teaching ESL at the same time. oh great idea! you can totally have a discussion about literature online!! :/ (and a phd is lit. is also so trivial that I should still prioritize working... at the same time). Thank god its vacation now and I don't have to see them.... but its going to be humiliating if I don't get in anywhere and have to explain that to her. Well I am not staying at this job in either case... so there.

cquin, I have the same problem. I emailed ETS about it a few days ago, so I'll let you know if I hear anything useful back from them. (ETS is lucky that I'm living outside the USA right now which makes it impossible for me to actually call them on the phone and scream at them :/ )

Well, I'm definitely feeling the "O% confidence of acceptance" thread. I still have 3 applications to submit, but I wonder if it is even worth it. I've resigned myself to the high probability of having to take another year out of school, get a job that is less time-consuming than my current one (which has left me almost NO TIME to work on apps), and devote a hell of a lot more time to a second round of apps. I've been thinking that, since I do have all my application materials ready to go (even though they SUCK!) that it wouldn't hurt anything to submit this year anyway on the off-chance that I'd get in somewhere, and then re-apply if I don't. But then I thought of this: what if an admissions committee sees my second application, remembers how bad the first one was, and this hurts my chances the second time around? Does this happen? I even remember seeing a post on here saying that one of this person's schools told them, in the rejection letter, not to apply again. That's terrifying! Does anyone know how often this happens, or if there's any way to find out specific schools' policies on this? I guess I could call departments anonymously and ask, but grad secretaries might not know the psychological nuances of grad comittees, like whether they'd subconsciously look down on someone who submitted a sub-par application once and is trying again. Its just so frustrating because I feel like its mainly lack of time that has hindered me from doing a good application this time. I know I could do so much better. Or is this just the way everyone feels? I also have a hard time getting that excited about any school that is not SUNY Buffalo (I'm into poetics, and I think their poetics program is fucking perfect for me) so its like... if I got in somewhere else this year, would I really go there? knowing my application to Buffalo could have been so much better? maybe, maybe not. God, this sucks. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hello, I think the University of Notre Dame fits all of your criteria. Their deadline is January 2nd, they don't require the subject GRE, and seem to be very strong in Medieval and Renaissance. I think they are actually famous for their Medieval department (this is just what I gather-- I'm applying there but I'm not a medievalist). They are in the top 50 but not the top 20.

thanks, glad I'm not the only one who couldn't find specifics. I will be especially glad to be done with CUNY's application. What a drag. It seems like such a cool program though.