Harvard's History of American Civilization 2009

[kfed2020]

You know, though ... an interdisciplinary degree from Harvard/Yale/etc. ain't so bad. There are some programs -- Harvard Am Civ, Yale Am Studies, Berkeley Rhetoric, etc. -- that are so well-known you won't have much of a problem, because scholars trust that students from these fields receive incomparable training.

Not to mention -- and this is big: Harvard would not start any program that wouldn't get its students great jobs. It cares too much about its own reputation to let an entire department of students sink, and the department really has to get those students placed if it wants to stick around. Am Civ will take care of you, believe me. Am Studies at Yale, too.

I mean, currently there are two profs in the English department at Penn who have interdisciplinary degrees -- one from Rhetoric (who's currently DGS) and one from Harvard Am Civ, and she graduated in 07 I believe. And I know at Princeton English they have two junior faculty from Performance Studies at NYU and one from Rhetoric, so -- recent hires.

At this tier of schools, what's more important is really the work you're producing. If you know what kinds of departments you'd want to teach in, tailor yourself early on to make a name for yourself in that field. "Harvard," "Yale," "Berkeley" etc. will always get your job app at least a decent look, but you've really got to shape yourself into a someone with tangible potential, just as you would in any disciplinary field! At this point, I really think we need to think less about how the schools we attend will train us and more about how we can use each school's resources to train ourselves. Keeping that in mind will make it work out for us all, I think.

... I hope. [looks to Obama to save the country from ruins.]

[earlyamerican]

Hey kfed, I PMd you.

[earlyamerican]

GoodGuy! We know someone in common at Berkeley! I just got off the phone with Mark.

Oh, damn, this is going to be fun, but this decision is just not clear at all.

[GoodGuy]

How funny is that about Mark?

We had a meal out at Berkeley the other day and he said he knew someone else in the Harvard Am Civ Program!

are you still going to visit?

GG

[earlyamerican]

Yeah! I'm writing him back right now. This is so exciting! Everyone sounds fascinating. GG, Mark mentioned just a couple things about you and I know I'm impressed and intrigued. Seems like Am Civ has really gone for the non-traditional types, which I know I appreciate.

MM, I'm a woman also, so you wouldn't be substantially outnumbered at Harvard. If it's possible to be substantially outnumbered by four people.

I can't wait to visit. Most of the time I feel like the decision is just making sure my husband and I can check the place out and feel good enough about living there that we can justify the move from the West Coast. This new form of waiting is also killing me, but I won't make a decision without seeing the place, and I've never been there before.

Also, I've been playing phone tag with John Stauffer, and I finally realized who he sounds like: John Malkovich.

[earlyamerican]

very funny that i missed this considering i just asked you if you wanted to get a draaank after the admit day. i'll be the slightly oldish 2nd-waveish-feminist who will be more than happy to chant anti-patriarchy slogans with you, boots tats and all. while my boifriend shakes her head in the wings

Oh, hottt. Not to go all Paris Hilton on you. I did my MFA at a fantastic but now-defunct little utopia so queer even the straight people were suspiciously gay. I've been so far from the worlds of generational privilege and hifalutin' pedigrees for so long that when I went to Berkeley's visit day for history, I had a minor internal freak-out when I walked in and the whole room was filled with white people, many of whom had that "aspiring investment banker" look about them (bad haircuts, worse suits, you know the drill). I definitely spent a good ten minutes asking myself if I really wanted to be part of this again, do I really want to do this to myself, etc. Once everyone calmed down a bit, almost everyone turned out to be lovely and generous and fascinating. I have all these (mis?)perceptions about the squareness and rigidity of the East Coast and its inhabitants, so it's great to know that it'll still be possible to be among those living (rather than just talking about) the binary-defying life.

[earlyamerican]

No. You could say it was like Goddard's asshole little brother who smoked too much weed and skipped exams and got arrested a couple times even though he was pretty smart and should have known better.

[GoodGuy]

Hey guys...I got the email from our cohort-mate across the ocean this morning. Gonna respond tonight.

earlyamerican--mark told me he knew someone else from the cohort, how strange that we've already been communicating, right?

i cannot wait to meet you peeps in april. i'm still in berkeley, LOVING it, but still wanna check out Harvard before i make a final decision either way.

DRINKS all around when we meet up!

GG

[kfed2020]

Bad haircuts and the aspiring investment banker look... lol. (some of) Harvard in a nutshell.

I'm so sad that I won't be here when you all come next year! Do come. Harvard needs you.

[earlyamerican]

MM, that is some fascinating biography there. I've heard the same thing about the east coast: You can be straight or you can be gay and everyone's OK with that, but you better not start busting up those categories any further or everyone freaks out. Sad. I wonder, though, how much that has to do with class and the political assimilation of same sex couples into middle class consumerdom, ie, "hey if they own a house and drive a minivan teh gayz can't be that bad, right?" Seems it's the working class or already-disenfranchised who find room for the more fluid practices and expressions of the big drag show of life called gender. But that raises the question: what queer working-class communities, assuming they are defined and findable, are going to welcome a hotshot from Harvard? You can be screwed every day of your life but you kind of stop being able to claim that when you wear a tag of privilege as big and blingy as that, you know? I mean, I wrestle with the same stuff. I step into the room and I *feel* the difference between me and the well-bred, even if I can't always name exactly why. I think I've interrogated all the personal psychological reasons there can be for feeling different, yet it remains. I'm not a big fan of identity politics per se, reasons being that it collapses experience into sets of categories when identity is entirely contingent, always contextual, and the most politically radical thing about it is that it mutates all the time. But the California mellow ethos can cover up some serious ignorance and deadly violence, too. Don't forget Prop 8 passed here, and Gwen Aruajo lived just a couple cities south of Berkeley.

GoodGuy, I was pretty surprised when Mark mentioned he knew someone also. I figured it had to be you when he mentioned you were looking at Af-Am at Berkeley, because I remembered that from here and didn't think there could be two with those interests in those schools. I said, "Oh, I may be conversing with him on the internet!" You're a friend of his from growing up, right? You know he was the TA in one of my first history classes. I really sucked but I got better, thanks in large part to Mark being so awesome and giving comments that actually showed me how I was supposed to write an academic argument. Thankfully he didn't hold that against me.

Honestly, kfed? That's the biggest strike against Harvard. Some of those pre-law history majors are the most hideously obnoxious students. As you know, it's bad enough being in class with them. Teaching them does not sound like big fun. Where are you off to, kfed? I personally think it's a healthy thing for seniors to be a little jaded about their college. You've grown beyond needing an institution to provide for your every physical, intellectual, and social need. ENJOY THE REST OF YOUR YEAR! I have fond memories of playing frisbee golf all over campus with beers and my friends after our theses were turned in.

I say we buy kfed a beer when we're there. Every time I wonder if I've chosen the right profession, somebody mentions drinking, and then I know I'm in the right place. I think April may get off to a sloppy start.

[kfed2020]

Honestly, kfed? That's the biggest strike against Harvard. Some of those pre-law history majors are the most hideously obnoxious students. As you know, it's bad enough being in class with them. Teaching them does not sound like big fun. Where are you off to, kfed? I personally think it's a healthy thing for seniors to be a little jaded about their college. You've grown beyond needing an institution to provide for your every physical, intellectual, and social need. ENJOY THE REST OF YOUR YEAR! I have fond memories of playing frisbee golf all over campus with beers and my friends after our theses were turned in.

I say we buy kfed a beer when we're there. Every time I wonder if I've chosen the right profession, somebody mentions drinking, and then I know I'm in the right place. I think April may get off to a sloppy start.

But some of the pre-law history majors are really hot! I assure you, the hideously obnoxious know no disciplinary bounds at Harvard. I've not encountered too many at Harvard in the first place; but the ones I've run into have been studying everything from Economics to Women's studies. A douchebag's a douchebag.

When is your visit weekend?

[GoodGuy]

[kfed2020]

i also have the feeling that meeting you all is not going to make my decision any easier. in fact, i think it's going to make it waaaay more difficult. why?? aren't campus visits supposed to make it glaringly obvious where one wants to be!?!?!

m

no! definitely supposed to make your life harder.

my problem is that all the people i'd work with at the schools i'm considering went to school together, are close friends and have talked about me amongst themselves. there's no escape!

[GoodGuy]

i also have the feeling that meeting you all is not going to make my decision any easier. in fact, i think it's going to make it waaaay more difficult. why?? aren't campus visits supposed to make it glaringly obvious where one wants to be!?!?!

m

I was having the SAME exact thought, mm...I just got the email with all our names on it but haven't had time to do the Google thing yet!

It's funny, going out to Berkeley and meeting the cohort (and present grad students) only made my decision that much harder, and I suspect getting to Harvard in April will have the same effect on me. Even our mate from Germany sounds cool in his emails so far!...Interestingly, Brown doesn't have a big pre-decision cohort meet, which I think is a mistake. Some of the best advice I got during this whole decision-making process came from one of the profs I really wanted to work with at one of the schools that rejected me (cough, cough, USC, cough). She told me that at the end of the day, I'll get a great education from wonderful professors wherever I go--Brown, Harvard, Berkeley--but even though I should be aware of which profs I wanna work with and learn from, I should pay VERY CLOSE attention to the other potential members of the cohort of admitted students, as those are the people I will most be around (in classes, socially, etc) --and if I like them, that will make the grad experience that slight bit better. I casually mentioned this to the grad advisor at Berkeley over the weekend and she agreed, adding that she'd be sure to pass along that advice as well...

Anyway, again, looking forward to meeting you all in real life!

And mm-- I was referring to all of us as "we"...no significant other here at the moment--that ended before the grad process began, happily so, as he turned out to be much more averse to change than I knew/expected, and it would have been HELL to try to negotiate my being in Berkeley or Cambridge or Providence as the school year begins (he's in NYC)...so it'll be just me, with bells on...well, metaphorical bells. Bells don't REALLY go that well with my Timberlands and Levis! :roll:

[GoodGuy]

my problem is that all the people i'd work with at the schools i'm considering went to school together, are close friends and have talked about me amongst themselves. there's no escape!

I know what you mean, Kfed. I've run into the same thing. One of my undergrad profs is GREAT friends with a prof I really wanna work with at Harvard, and another prof is best friends with one of the profs I'd wanna work with at Berkeley. Two of the profs I met with at Berkeley are close to/went to grad school with another prof I'm close to. And I know they've talked about me amongst themselves (in a good way, of course! :? )I forget how incestuous and close these relationships can be in academia--especially when you're talking about a select bunch of schools where all these people seem to study (or ONE desolate-towned Ivy in particular that seems to corner the market on sending wonderful Am Studies grads out to teach at other Ivy/R1 Am Studies/Af-Am/Cultural Studies/English programs :wink: )

[kfed2020]

You guys are a riot.

Looking back at the Am Studies website for Yale, I can't for the life of me figure out why I didn't apply!!!!! It looks amazing!!!!

which is not to say Harvard isn't...

But I dunno. That Yale place... they sure do get a kick out of interdisciplinarity, don't they?

[earlyamerican]

Oh, wow. I had the shittiest day with sick and abused kids and this was such a thrilling series of posts to read through. Will one of you forward me the list of emails?

That being said, I'm pretty horrified to have been googled. I don't know what's up there currently but I know what's come up for my name in the past and I'm groaning. Please, for the love of god, ignore the friendster profile. I've grown since then. I should take that shit down. I want to level the playing field by google stalking you all, though I know I'm only going to find intimidatingly impressive stuff.

I for one would be THRILLED to have a non-academic writing workshop. One of the things that kills me about leaving the Bay Area would be losing proximity to my regular workshop and assorted writer friends. Not that I've written much besides applications or emails lately, but I really do want to get some of my fiction polished up and sent out.

I'll be in the Boston/Cambridge area from April 1-7. I'm married, all legal & shit, because the chromosomes worked out favorably that way and it's nice to have state-to-state portability of health care benefits. Of course, at the time, same sex marriage was legal in CA. I still have so much rage over prop 8 it's unhealthy. I don't even believe marriage should be a state matter, but, well, fuck me, every woman's life is a series of capitulations. Depressing enough? Sorry - I should say I'm very happy and very grateful to have such a supportive partner, but believe me, I'm as surprised as anyone that he turned out to be male. I totally have "hasbian" guilt. Now I teach kids whose families were actually out campaigning FOR prop 8. Remember all that reductionist noise about black vs. gay in the aftermath of Prop 8? I have to check myself HARD to not take it there while at the same time checking the students on their inexcusably homophobic shit. WTF do you do when one of your sixth graders gets suspended for beating the shit out of a girl who accused my girl's father of sucking dick? What do you do when her grandmother is telling her that was the right thing to do? Can't we just do some pre-algebra and have a snack? No? Damn.

So there, MM, I can be all self-disclosey too. Among peers. I've been teaching K-college students in some form for a long time so I've got nice healthy boundaries, thanks. BTW, you should find ZZ Packer's "Drinking Coffee Elsewhere," which is also the title of the book that story is in. It's based on Yale, and though I didn't go there, it's the only story I've ever found that puts the finger on the sense of comprehensive alienation I felt as an undergraduate. You'll love it. I got to take a class with her and she's got one of those minds that works so fast it's startling.

And in terms of incestuousness: please. Aren't all academics some serious gossip freaks? I supposed there are those who aren't, but last week I heard a tidbit of new info about my beloved undergrad advisor from someone who knew him well 20 years ago and the first thing I thought of was how I had to tell the other people I graduated with. I like to think of this as a sign of our fondness for him, but it's another reminder of how you gotta keep your personal shit close or else an entire field will know your business. I'd like to declare that your personal shit is safe with me, despite my clear penchant for gossip. I already feel a bond with you all.

GoodGuy, if you're wearing Timberlands and Levis, you could probably use some bells. And feathers. I don't know what your scene is like but in San Francisco you sound more like the lesbians I know than the gay boys.

[kfed2020]

How was visiting weekend???

[GoodGuy]

Hey kfed

I had a great time at Harvard's visit. Met some cool peeps and really liked the members of my cohort as well as the students in the upper groups.

I'm coming to Harvard in the fall.

Hope you have a great time wherever you end up!

GG

[kfed2020]

Yes I heard from one of my friends that you were great. Have a great time at Harvard!