Urban Sociology and a naïve question

[cooltime]

I'm an undergrad student right now and am considering applying to grad school for Fall 2013 admission. I've only taken nine sociology classes so far and really don't feel like there's a specific area I'm passionate about. More than anything, I think this is purely from a lack of exposure, which I'm going to fix over the summer and next year.

Anyway, I'm interested in Urban Sociology, and am wondering what the best universities for this field of sociology are. I should also say I'm currently studying in Canada, but from my basic search, this field seems more established in the States. However, opinions on universities anywhere in the world would be appreciated.

I'm also wondering if anyone has any knowledge of Urban Sociology, such are what the current major topics and issues being researched are. Basically, any info, including useful links, about this field would be greatly appreciated. I have been scouring the internet a little bit, but you guys seem pretty knowledgeable and it's interesting to hear personal experiences.

Now, onto my basic questions that have probably been answered a million times on this board.

As I said, I'm looking to apply to grad school for 2013 admission. I would absolutely love to study in the States, but realize that Master's programs are rarely funded, while many PhD programs are. I am not sure I would apply for a PhD program, and this is mostly because I am not sure I want a life of academia. So, my question for you guys is: if I apply for a PhD program without the intention of a life in academia, do my chances of acceptance decrease? Essentially I'm asking if these programs are mostly intended for those interested in academic/research-oriented careers. I'd like to hear opinions regarding the views of both high and lower ranking universities. I'm not completely ruling out an academic career, but I really think I need to find my niche before I can say for certain this is the path I want to take.

Anyway, thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing your opinions!

[Darth.Vegan]

I gotta tell ya, It doesn't sound like the grind of a potential 7 year PhD program is right for you.

[cooltime]

To be honest, I would say I'm experiencing a bit of a slump right now academically and personally, as in I'm unsure what I want to do or where I'm headed. So, I completely agree with you. And I would never even consider pursuing anything beyond a Master's if I continue to feel so unsure.

My question still stands, though.

[Urbanethnographer]

Hi Cooltime,

To answer your question, I'd say that your chances of admission would definitely decrease if you were not interested in spending your life as a researcher and a professor, especially if you made this fact known in your applications. After all, PhD programs are designed to train people for careers in academia, at least primarily as far as I know. I would say that if you do pursue a Master's degree, it would probably be less beneficial to pursue one in sociology than in, say, social work or urban planning or some other degree. Actually, did you ever think of urban planning? That seems like it could fit into your interests. Anyway, I know how hard it is to decide what to do in life. Good luck to you!

Urbanethnographer

[sociology27]

It's good to have doubts. At some point along the way, I think we all do. Think hard about if you really want this and if you do, that's great; if you decide you don't, I'm sure you'll find something else better. I don't advocate going into this for lack of a better idea, but to say that having doubts 18 months before you'd even start is a bad thing is hogwash.

Iffff you do decide to apply for PhDs, I think you'd be happy to know that a lot of people don't take academic jobs, especially at schools not in the top 20. I know little of Urban Sociology other than CUNY Graduate Center which has a great program. Anyway, whether you want an academic job or not, it's best to phrase the Statement of Purpose in a way that comes off as if you do. It's what adcomms want to hear (I've been told). Once your in grad. school, you can explore all the options available.

[MashaMashaMasha]

I will have to agree with xdarthveganx on this one. If you aren't sure that you want to get a PhD, you should not pursue it right now. My strong recommendation is to take some time off after you graduate. Work, travel, be a real person. If after a few years of that (I took five years), you still have that fire in yer belly for some set of social issues, then come back and hunker down and apply.

[Karlito]

Urban sociology is often linked to other subfields of sociology. For example, a classic one is race relations (for example, ethnographies of ghettos, etc). Another classic is culture. In any event, if you like sociology in urban contexts, try to find another subfield to link it to.

[RefurbedScientist]

To be honest, I would say I'm experiencing a bit of a slump right now academically and personally, as in I'm unsure what I want to do or where I'm headed. So, I completely agree with you. And I would never even consider pursuing anything beyond a Master's if I continue to feel so unsure.

My question still stands, though.

First of all, I think that it's totally fine for you to be considering these questions, even in light of your doubts. Like sociology27 said, we all have doubts even as we're on the precipice of entering grad school. You're doing the right thing by asking around about your options and figuring out what sounds exciting to you. I would wait, however, until you have more certainty before actually applying. A serious application season can cost hundreds (some people even spend thousands) of dollars, and the process should not be undertaken lightly. It's perfectly normal to take some time off before applying to grad school (especially a doctoral program). I think most people on this board are not going straight from undergrad to grad school.

OK, now on to Urban Ethnography. First of all, check out the programs for these upcoming conferences. The panels will be chock full of urban ethnographers, and you can follow those back to their respective institutions.

https://sites.google.com/site/ajs2012conference/

http://www.uic.edu/depts/soci/cec2012/#top

Programs that I know that are known for urban ethnography include UChicago, Princeton, CUNY, Yale...

Also, don't ignore anthropology and geography programs. And I would echo the above suggestion to consider urban planning. UCLA's school for Urban Planning has always seemed cool to me, and I'm sure there would be opportunity to do stuff with the sociology department. I like Edward Soja at UCLA Urban Planning program, for example.

I'll think about this more, because I think you have some good questions.

[RefurbedScientist]

So, my question for you guys is: if I apply for a PhD program without the intention of a life in academia, do my chances of acceptance decrease? Essentially I'm asking if these programs are mostly intended for those interested in academic/research-oriented careers. I'd like to hear opinions regarding the views of both high and lower ranking universities.

To respond to this question directly: Yes sociology PhD programs are intended for academic/research-oriented careers. The top programs (let's call it top 50 for argument's sake) are training you for an academic career. Not everyone ends up there. Increasingly people are heading to private, public, and non-profit jobs. HOWEVER, you can technically do whatever the hell you want with your degree. BUT, urban ethnography will probably not be a very attractive skill to most of the research-y kinds of jobs out there (they want stats, GIS, survey methods).

I would look into public sociology terminal masters programs if you're jazzed about ethnography but don't want a career in academic. This applied social science program at Hunter would be open place to start: http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/sociology/graduate

But yes, you do have to pay for terminal masters programs, but without the promise of the salary you might get from a professional degree (MPP, MPH, etc.)

[cooltime]

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

I think I would only end up applying for a PhD program if I did decide to pursue a career in academia or research. The question about doing a PhD without academia as a goal mainly stems from my present uncertainties and general curiosity, but I think if it ever came down to it, the only way I would ever apply for a PhD program is if my goals really did align with what the program best suits you for, which is clearly academia/research. RIght now, I'm only seriously considering Master's programs. I also think taking time off is definitely not out of the question for me. I think I would be able to handle a Master's program, but I also want to be in a good mental state before starting down a path that will undoubtedly be stressful at times.

Urban planning sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I can see myself doing it. Urban and social policy seem a little more in line with my strengths, I think. So, that's probably something for me to seriously consider also. If I do decide to go the non-academia route, a professional degree is probably a more practical choice.

SocialGroovements, thanks so much for your responses and advice. I will definitely have a look into those programs and conferences.

[splitends]

So, you've already gotten a lot of good advice, but I'm going to chime in with a few additional things to consider:

1) "I'm really interested in this field-- what are some of the things being studied in it right now?" is an EXCELLENT way to start a very productive conversation with a professor, who will know a lot more about it than any of us. If you don't already have good working relationships with your undergrad professors, going into their office hours and saying exactly this would be the way to start. Also, "I'm thinking about graduate schools-- what are strong departments in this area?" is another great way to continue that conversation.

2) If you are really strapped for cash/don't want to take on additional debt/whatever, you are relatively serious about wanting to study sociology (there is a big difference between enjoying an undergraduate class and actually wanting to be a researcher), but not totally sure about wanting a job in academia, then in theory you could apply to a funded PhD program knowing that you intend to walk away once you get your Master's. (Most programs I know of grant you a Master's on your way to the PhD, the timing of which will vary considerably from program to program). There are a lot of problems with this scenario, but I sort of know people who have done it, and I think it can be preferable to adding on $50K+ in debt for a terminal Master's degree program in some situations.

But frankly it sounds like you have a lot more to think about before applying to grad school. I think grad school can seem like the obvious choice when you've been going to school your whole life and don't really know what else to do after graduating from college, but it's not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. In fact, the advice that I've been given is that if you can see yourself doing anything else at all with your life, do that instead. I don't think you should commit 6-8 years of your life to this time devouring emotional roller coaster with few job prospects waiting for you at the end of it unless you are, at the very least, reasonably sure that it's what you want to do.

[cooltime]

You're definitely right when you say that considering grad school in large part stems from the feeling that it's a natural progression after undergraduate studies. I actually had a conversation with a prof last week in which she asked "Well, why do you want to go to grad school?" and I couldn't really give a coherent answer.

Your second point is something that I've been considering. It seems that in Canada funding is definitely better for terminal Master's programs, but tuition isn't waived a lot of the time, so the vast majority of the money goes right back into the institution's pocket. Even though I would save some money, it would still put me into a significant amount of debt. Going the route you mentioned is an option, but it seems a little deceptive to go into a program like that, knowing there's a large chance of dropping out after receiving your Master's.

I've also worked so hard at my undergrad and just want to be sure I make the best decision regarding grad school, so that I take advantage of all the opportunities I can from the skills I've acquired. I know my GPA (3.96 overall and 4.0 in Sociology) and various accomplishments are very strong. I just really need to give myself time to consider my options.

[jacib]

Man, I always recommend people take time off between graduate school and undergrad unless it's a professional program that you absolutely need and have been preparing for for the past few years and has a definite job at the end (say, a medical degree or a masters in some economic-y thing). Even law school, I tell people to go work in a soul crushing office for a year or two before they commit to it. But really, this might be your last chance to discover what's important to you before you get placed into a clear career trajectory. If you do go to graduate school, this is last chance to gain experiences and skills that aren't won't get in graduate school.

Start a band, or move abroad, or with your GPA go try to get a consulting job where you develop certain skills and a certain bank account, or just get a Joe-job that pays 10 bucks an hour (basically the same take home you'll be getting in graduate school) and just see your friends and have fun, whatever, just enjoy being out of school. But if you're not sure 110% sure, next year is not the year to go to a PhD program, and even if you are 110% sure, have a year of fun chilling with your friends or move abroad or something. Do City Year. I moved to Istanbul directly after college and lived there for three years. I had never been to Turkey before I moved there (protip: TEFL jobs are pretty easy almost everywhere outside of Europe). By the time I was done, I knew exactly what I wanted to do and study, and it looked good on my resume for graduate school. A lot of my friends from Istanbul also ended up going to grad school (in linguistics, in law, in history, in anthropology, in creative writing, etc.) and they have all used the skills and experiences from Istanbul in their graduate work. I happened to fall in with a particularly intellectual group of friends so that's probably not representative of everyone's experience (there's also a lot of what my exgirlfriend referred to as "training for alcoholism" in expat populations), but whatever you can do, get a job that opens windows and helps you figure out what you want to do. I went to Istanbul convinced I wanted to a PhD in Religion and by the time I was ready to apply, the questions I was asking received a muted reception at religious studies programs ("This sounds like a great project, and a I look forward to reading it, but unfortunately, we don't have anyone who could advise you here") but got sociologists excited.

But seriously, you want to stay in school because you've always been good at school, most of the people who apply are in the same boat, but who knows, maybe you're really good at something else, too? Our job market is a bit better than the job market in the Humanities (you hear less about sociologist stuck in endless cycles of adjuncting; though ambitious or geographically restricted people might bounce around for a few years), but you should still read these two articles, "So You Want to Go to Grad School" and "Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go" or really any number of pessimistic pieces by the same author. You have to realize that by choosing a PhD, you are giving up a world of opportunity. And an MA in sociology probably isn't that useful in most fields. You should be really ready to deal with the bargain you strike. I am very happy with what I'm doing, but I carefully considered and explored the other options that interested me, and really, other than a career in public health which would also require years more of training, it's hard for me to imagine myself doing anything else.

[interestingmix]

Where to begin.

I agree strongly with slitends about talking to a professor. Such a conversation would help answer your questions and would also give you a person to ask for a letter of recommendation when you apply for graduate school.

I would really take time to consider what piece of urban sociology to which you are drawn. It is a pretty broad field. Inequalities. Environment. Planning. Policy. Really, anything. Education in an urban setting. Gender and sexuality in the city. So so much. Once you are able to narrow the field a little bit, making decisions will become a lot easier.

As far as being in a slump, you do have to do something. I mean, whether you decide to enter the workforce or continue on with academia, something will happen. I don't think that choosing graduate school when you are unsure is a bad idea at all. If you hate it, you can stop. If you love it, you can continue on. If you decide you are interested in something else, you can go for a different degree.

As far as applying for places with funding, you can apply for a PhD program that isn't as academically focused and consider it as an option. If you decide not to go, you can leave with a masters degree. That isn't a terribly popular option, but it is an option and it will give you more options.

Also, check out the articles in City and Community (ASA publication). The more recent issues should give you a good idea of what is going on in the field.

[dewberry]

I would suggest that you consider applying to the sociology program at George Washington University if you are interested in urban sociology and you are not sure if you will go on to a PhD program or a life in academia. The department offers a handful of assistantships with full funding every year (tuition plus living stipend in exchange for working as a TA). Several fabulous scholars are there. Greg Squires and Antwan Jones do research on urban issues. And with GW's location in DC, you would be able to seek out internships and other experiences that might help you decide if you want a life in the academy or build more experience with public policy, social work, criminology, etc. You might also consider the PhD in sociology program at George Mason University outside of DC. They tend to place most of their graduates in public policy or other positions outside of the academy. 

[gilbertrollins]

I suspect your "lack of passion" is merely some confusion about which fields and programs are most tuned into the questions you find interesting and meaningful, and you're right that more exposure will give you that.  

 

You're right to have questions about whether you want to be a professional academic.  It's a circus, and mostly thankless.  But you're asking mature questions, so I don't suspect you're naive about what it might entail.  

 

Like Splitends said -- meet with professors and get a conversation going.  If the ball starts rolling, ask if you can assist research over the summer.  If you enjoy that and mount a line of literature you enjoy a lot over the summer, apply to graduate school in the Fall.  

 

If you get to graduate school and it's not for you - leave.  There are worse ways to experiment in life.

 

 

Edit: Whoops -- just noticed this issue is over a month old.  Fail.

Edited April 12, 2013 by econosocio

[heyitsthatguy]

Everyone has had good things to say. I agree with the idea of taking a year off, especially if you are not in an ideal "mental state." I'm an older student and I feel my work has been made better both because I took years off to travel and live in the real world (though I disagree with the suggestion of getting a soul crushing job, take time to do what you want), and because when I went back to school I had a better idea of what I wanted to do and could fully commit myself to it.

 

That said, my interest is also in urban sociology/demography. I would suggest getting a subscription to journals like City & Community, finding researchers whose work interests you and digging into it more. Another good starting point is Rob Sampson's latest book "The Great American City" which is a great read and some of the hottest stuff in the field right now. A word to ease your mind though - many people who find satisfaction in very successful careers later on in life had periods of uncertainty and hesitation, many of them changed fields, so do what feels right.

[amlobo]

Edit: Whoops -- just noticed this issue is over a month old.  Fail.

 

Actually, over a year old.  Lol.

[gilbertrollins]

What is that then? (Fail)^12 or 12(fail) ? If my experience online is any indication, I'd say the fail function is not merely a linear combination of fails. (Fail)^12 it is.