How valuable is a degree from Top-5 GSE?

[jshap10]

Out of paranoia of university people seeing these posts, I don't want to get extremely specific, but I have been accepted for an MAT/Certification for Secondary English at several schools. This is probably a common dilemma: Do I go for the Top-5, Ivy League GSE that I will likely leave in around $50K of debt (maybe more), or do I go to the University ranked around #30 (in general rankings; they don't appear on the US News ranks of Education departments for some reason) that also has decent name recognition, that will probably leave me closer to $20K or less in debt?

We all know that a GSE isn't Law school, so off the bat it doesn't seem smart to do this to become a teacher. Maybe I shouldn't be going with either of these options and find another way to get into teaching. On the other hand, I think I will one day be going for a doctorate in something or other to either attempt to be a professor or go into a principal/superintendent type position,, so the best school could put me in a better position for that. Really been struggling with this.

[jshap10]

By the way the big discrepancy has a lot to do with tuition but also because of my specific options in terms of living situation... the cheaper option would actually probably be under $15K of debt

[PhDreams]

If its the only degree you get and you will be doing something other than teaching IN school k-12, I would go big name. At least that's one of the reasons I chose a big name. The job market the way it is you are sort of buying a brand (for people who have no clue about rankings or quality or education,etc). Since I plan to work mostly in out of school contexts, not only is the program itself fantastic but also the name brand degree will open many doors.

[michigan girl]

Name brand only matters in research, consulting, and policy-making contexts.

If you're only planning to teach K-12 subjects in public schools, name brand is less relevant. What matters more is which program offers the best student teaching opportunities and job placements in a particular region. For instance, if I want to teach K-12 in a public school district in Southeast Michigan, it would be wise for me to enroll in the education schools at Michigan, Michigan State, Wayne State, or Eastern Michigan. HGSE or TC-Columbia degree won't increase my chances of employability because the local programs already have an existing placement system for local teachers.

[PhDreams]

^^ Exactly

[turkeyteacher]

A name brand won't hurt you but I don't think it's a necessity. I would also have to echo that it is absolutely unnecessary to get a top-5 degree if you are sticking to k-12 education. I personally would have to disagree, however, with some other aspects of the previous posts. Yes, a top school can open doors for you, but it doesn't mean that any of the same doors are closed to you if you don't go to a top school.

I am in the process of deciding between a ranked school and a non-ranked school. Austin is usually considered top 3, but I am questioning whether or not it's the best bet for me. I love the individualization and coursework of another non-ranked program I got into as well.

I think that what you do both during and after your degree is what truly dictates your future. At the smaller school, I will most-likely have more individualized attention and more opportunities for RA positions and funding that will free up more time and money for me to do more research and build my resume more than I might at Austin. Shouldn't actual work count for more than an name brand? I know the common response is that the higher ranked universities have better research options, but with more crowded programs/classes, more tracking, and busier POI's, I just don't think that's always the case.

While yes, going to a name brand school might provide you with more networking initially, it doesn't mean that another school would work against you. I have scoured consulting and policy CV's and some of them went to top universities and some did not. Additionally, I paid for literally every cent of my undergrad and MA so I could only afford to go to a small state school . . . and I got into 4 wonderful programs, one of which is top-3 so I wouldn't worry about where you get your MA, but how well you perform and what your work experience is.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Austin and it is tied for my #1 at the moment, but I have also been a Longhorn fan for many years now. =] Still, my choice will be on which school is the best fit for me overall, not just on the chance that the person hiring me will give me the hook-up.

[kismetcapitan]

for teacher training, find the program that fits you best, and also makes sense financially.

If you're a public school teacher, you will eventually recover the cost of grad school through the salary premium you get with an M.Ed, and it doesn't matter where you got it.

depressingly, the Gates Foundation's massive study on predictors for teacher quality found that an M.Ed had NO statistically significant effect. In that light, choose a program where you feel you will really grow and develop as a teacher. as stated previously, name value only comes into play in policy and research.

[ctcpx084]

While I was in graduate school working on my masters, I asked my advisor this sort of question, as I had been considering moving on to a PhD/EdD right away. This is one man's opinion, but I'll give it: he told me that you typically would end up working at a university the level of your doctorate. Obviously, a top 5 school would mean your options are unlimited. An unranked, or smaller school, might only help you to work at a university that is smaller, or in the same region even. It seems like it (university stature, etc) matters much more if you're attending graduate school with the goal of doing research or government work in the future, as opposed to initial teacher training.

When it comes to initial teacher training, or even an MAT, I wouldn't attend a top 5 school. These GSE's are not really designed to educate new teachers. Go to a university that is at least partially focused on teacher training, where student teaching is a possibility (as opposed to internships and/or alternative licensure) and your professors are not only dedicated to theoretical research. If you're looking at going to academia or working for the state board of education, Woodchuck State is probably not the best option to take, particularly if you have viable top 5 choices available to you.

Student teaching, and the proper support that comes with it, is a big deal. I did alternative certification, as I went to graduate school more interested in everything but teaching; I had an assistantship to coach. I ended up following a career in education, and many lessons learned in the first few years were as a result of a lack of oversight my first year of teaching, during which I was on my own with only a university supervisor who was 400 miles away. Looking ahead to a doctorate or administration is good, but do us all a favor and become a fantastic teacher first. We have plenty of academics in education who are either horrible teachers or burnouts--or both. What we need are more principals and professors who were excellent teachers, and who are ready to be inspiring leaders.

Edited May 5, 2012 by wjdavis

[mak007]

I just graduated a year ago with my BS in Secondary Education English from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Here are my thoughts:

Many states won't recognize a master's in education to simply gain your teaching certification as a true master's in education. Therefore, you're less likely to be moving up the pay scale until you've actually earned a separate degree in teaching with a particular focus (like literacy, curriculum development, administration, or technology). You usually also need 2 years of professional teaching experience before you can start that graduate work, so it's not something you'll just start the second you leave university. I just want to put that out there since I've met a lot of people who confuse that. Every state has different requirements, so it's important to know what you're getting yourself into.

With that said, I would totally go for the best university in the region of the state in which you want to teach, and I would evaluate "best" on which school gives you the most exposure to field work.

For me, that was UW-Madison, which is the top school in the state and also a top school in the US. It is one of the only programs in the state that is actually highly competitive for admissions (as opposed to just taking the pre-reqs and filling out an application, or delaying admission for a semester to offset the number of applicants) and it showed with the level of education I feel I received. FYI, students could do this as a BS (after basically completing all major requirements for their single subject) or as a post-bac. The program I believe is now moving to a master's certification program.

The UW requires 2 semesters of practicum (8-20 hours assisting and observing a teacher) in the first year and 2 semesters (1 half and 1 full-day) of student teaching in the second year. (I believe Madison is moving to a master's 3-semester approach now, so take my experience for what it was, not what it is a year later). We take courses on ed psych, special education, technology and literacy, educational policy, and working with English language learners plus specific methods courses for our subject majors. We complete a comprehensive e-portfolio over the course of our preparation to use for our job search and future work. We did action research. It's a cohort-style of preparation, too. My classmates all agreed that having the 4 semesters of constantly being in the classroom and analyzing our experiences was the best part of the program, and Madison grads are consistently hired earlier in the job search process. It meant we could come away with several diverse teaching experiences and, of course, the all-important letters of recommendation that secure our future jobs.

So, to sum up my highly biased perspective , if you want to teach in K-12, focus your efforts on a good school with lots of field work so that you will feel experienced and have recommendations. It doesn't need to be Ivy League or expensive. I'm already in debt enough (having attended an in-state school) going into a field with a low salary, and I'll go into more debt eventually pursuing a master's degree (that I will likely never see recouped). It would do me no good to have gone to Stanford or Teacher's College. Likewise, I went through an actual preparation program, and not just a 1-year rush with one semester in the classroom experience. I wouldn't choose the fastest possible method for certification, either, as it will seriously lack the depth needed to feel confident and be knowledgeable of the true world of teaching. In the future, if I wanted to pursue a PhD, I would absolutely look to the top tier universities, but you'll need teaching experience to get your foot in the door for that and you'll certainly be able to evaluate your choices then.