So what will they make of *this* academic history?

[margarets]

Some background: I'm in my mid-40s, planning to apply for a Master's program for Fall 2013. It's a part-time program that I would do while working full-time.

My story:

Back in 1986 I left high school and started at a big-name university. I had been a good, scholarship-winning student in high school but at uni I… bombed. I mean, I barely scraped through. Mostly Cs, a few Bs, and even 2 Ds (a D+ and a D- to be exact). And a couple of withdrawals.

There was some seriously toxic family stuff going on at the time (an escalation of the perpetually dysfunctional dynamic) and I was an emotional wreck. Looking back, I see that it was worse than I even realized at the time.

Anyway, after 3 years full-time but a few credits shy of my degree (you could get 3-year BAs back then), I decided to take a year off to figure out my life. During that year I conceived the notion of becoming a translator, so in the Fall of 1990 I went to another university to study a foreign language. After a semester I realized it wasn't for me and bailed. However, academically I did better: 4 Bs and 2 Cs, and I could transfer some credits back to my first uni.

I picked up the last two credits I needed part-time while working full-time, and graduated in 1992. I was 24 years old.

For the next couple of years I worked, but in my own time became very interested in a particular topic and did some community activism stuff on it. Then I figured out that I could *work* in that field if I got the necessary education. So I started at a third university for another bachelor's degree.

This was one of the best decisions of my life. I really came into my own during this time, and it showed in my academic performance. My first semester GPA was 3.33 and it kept climbing, up to 3.78 in my last semester. (It would have been higher were it not for all the group work in the program. I always seemed to get stuck with the, shall we say, less hard-working and committed students. But anyway.) I graduated with distinction, won a couple of awards, got hired as a teaching assistant for a statistics course and as a research assistant for a very high-profile project led by two of my professors. I was listed as one of the authors and that paper has been cited many times, so it was kind of a big deal, at the time.

This program offered an exchange semester overseas in second year, and I went. That university had a very wonky grading system (neither letter grades nor GPA) and my grades were mixed: everything from an A+ to a C- (rough equivalent). My home university did not convert these grades or use them to calculate my GPA, but just gave neutral, non-graded credit for the semester. (However I would still submit the transcript from the overseas university with my Master's application. They want to see everything.)

For the 10+ years since, I've worked (including a few years overseas), lived life and pursued non-academic interests. Last year, in preparation for possibly returning to school, I took a continuing education course in a related field. I got an A. That info would also be submitted with my application.

Bear in mind that there will be no place in the SOP to discuss my early academic failures. The admissions info is very clear about what they want to see in the SOP and none of it is personal history stuff. So, what they'll see is transcripts from four universities for two bachelor's degrees, with grades going back over 20 years, with no context or explanation.

What will the admissions committee think? "Yikes, look at all those Cs and Ds, we can't let this person in" or "meh, those Cs and Ds are from 20 years ago, they've certainly redeemed themselves since" or (with any luck) even "you gotta respect anyone who bombs that badly and still comes back for another try – that's perservance!".

I am aware that the other parts of the application are important too, but there's no getting around the fact that grades are a huge deal. And I have gotten every. single. grade. there is to get.

What do you all think?

[emmm]

I think you need to talk to everyone you might possibly be thinking of asking to write you letters of recommendation and get their input. They have no restrictions on what they can write about you or on how much they can write. I think they fill out a form on you and then have unlimited space to add any other information. This is where the actual "letter" gets uploaded. They can discuss how much they admire the effort you've put in to prusuing this career goal, despite a rough beginning. My sense is that the 2nd bachelor's will be the one they use, but I could be wrong. Still, it makes sense to consider more recent coursework, since that's more likely to be representative of who you are now. Good luck!

[UnlikelyGrad]

I flamed out of my first (big-name) school...far worse than you did, too. My GPA afterwards was good but not stellar (~3.6) Most admissions officers didn't care about the first school. As one person I know who's involved with adcomms put it: "Lots of people do dumb stuff when they're really young. You aren't really young. We care what you've done since."

I would agree with emmm that they'll probably weight your most recent work the highest.

[margarets]

Thanks!

UnlikelyGrad, I like your handle!

I feel a bit better about things now. The university prides itself on being accessible to mid-career people, and mid-career people have histories, so maybe my application will be unremarkable for some long-ago hiccups.

I'm going keep on with the continuing ed courses (they will be good prep for the master's, and are useful in their own right), and make sure I ace those, so that "who I am now" is an academic contender. Yes!

[UnlikelyGrad]

Also keep in mind that GPA is not the thing adcomms weight the highest--it's the letters of recommendation and experience in your field that really make you shine. So yes, the continuing ed is crucial (since that will probably be the source for at least some of your LoRs--at least it was for me).

Ooh, and I just re-read your original post and saw that you have a publication. That is GREAT! I think you'll do fine.

(This is where most people tell you to relax, but I'm not stupid. I know it's impossible to relax until you have an acceptance letter in your hand.)

[margarets]

Until I seriously looked into grad school I had this idea that the main things they looked for were: 1) an aptitude for academic work of high quality (obviously grades are a big part of this) 2) a commitment to the program (it screws up their funding and planning, not to mention reputation, if too many students drop out) and 3) a good fit between your research interests and the available supervisors.

I still think that is true, but you see so many people freaking out about a 0.01 difference in their GPA, it started to freak me out too!

[modernity]

Your recent stuff will weigh more importantly- especially your more recent grades and your related work experience. It took me multiple schools and multiple majors to figure out what I wanted, but once I figured it out I committed and worked hard.

[UnlikelyGrad]

I still think that is true, but you see so many people freaking out about a 0.01 difference in their GPA, it started to freak me out too!

Ha! So true. Those people used to freak me out too, especially when I was applying. Then I noticed the difference between where they were applying and where I was applying...their school lists were all like, "Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Berkeley, Caltech, and MIT"...in which case, 0.01 might matter. Everywhere else, not so much. I'm currently attending a school ranked in the 20's for earth sciences and I had no trouble getting in.

Have you thought about what sort of schools you might apply to?

Also: environmental studies? Come over to the earth sciences forum; you'll make some friends who can give more specific advice.

[margarets]

UnlikelyGrad, I'm only applying to one school, in this city, because I plan to continue working full-time.

I don't think admissions for this particular program are insanely competitive.

Maybe the 0.01 GPA thing matters when choosing between candidates who are equal in every other respect, and a hard decision must be made?

Also, I checked out your blog and it's EXCELLENT. I'll definitely go back to read the whole thing.

[juilletmercredi]

If I saw grades from 20 years ago that were bad, and then a more recent record that was very good including some publications and strong research experience, I would assume that this was a person who has matured over time into a strong candidate. Maybe initially they weren't ready for school or something happened the first time they were in school that disrupted their abilities - but that was 20 years ago, and their most recent efforts are stellar with grade turnout. Especially if the first degree was unrelated to my master's program field, they'd be almost irrelevant. So I would focus primarily on the grades from the current degree.

I would wager that a .01 difference in GPA doesn't matter even for Harvard, Caltech, or Berkeley (or the equivalent). They're also going to be more focused on LORs and personal statements, as well as research experience.