Harris vs Ford School: Urban Policy

[lottesnk]

Recently, I was accepted to the Ford School's MPP program and awarded a fellowship covering full tuition, $18,000 living stipend plus health insurance. Amazing! However, after more thorough research into the program I've realized it's not quite a fit for me. My interests is in urban and state policy, and the Ford School's strength is in federal and international relations. When browsing the faculty list, I find only 1 whose research piques my interest. And I'm struggling to find elective courses that I'd like to take. On the plus side, there is a local and state policy research center, but it now seems defunct (at least the website).

The Harris School clearly has a leg up on urban policy as it is THE policy school in Chicago. There are so many elective courses that I am eager to take on family policy, workforce development, education, and human potential. I find the courses less traditional, more interdisplinary (e.g., psych and policy), and more innovative than other schools (i.e., social policy isn't limited to only welfare reform and poverty). And I would love to take classes with at least 4 professors, based on their bios. Plus, there's the option to do a master's thesis!

The caveat: I didn't apply to the Harris School this application season. In order to attend, I would have to turn down Michigan's generous offer, wait a year to be accepted at the Harris School, and pray for a comparable financial aid package (rumor has it Harris is stingy with the $$$).

When I graduate, my goal is to work in city/local/state government, ideally in Chicago or NYC.

Can someone please tell me I'm a fool for not accepting the Ford School's offer? They both seem to offer the basic skills, which is what matters, right?

[12WardP]

First, congratulations! I'm weighing a similar offer from Michigan as well and it is a very exciting one to receive. Michigan is home to the National Poverty Center and houses many researchers who study urban and educational policy. Just look at their Faculty Directory and sort by interest.

http://fordschool.umich.edu/faculty/

While rankings are imperfect, Ford is tied with Harvard's Kennedy School for the top program in Social Policy. I think opportunities to research at the National Poverty Center and a high concentration of faculty who work in social policy, poverty, and education speak to its strong reputation. This is the first time I am hearing Harris would have an advantage over Ford regarding urban policy. I think both are fine schools with strong track records.

Again, congratulations and good luck with your decision.

[method]

You're a fool.

Haha, no seriously, congratulations on the fantastic offer. I have a few thoughts. First, it's rare to see students dump on their own school, but over the year, I seem to have stumbled upon several posts from current Harris students who say not to go there; you might want to search for some of those candid posts, positive or negative. Second, you mentioned an interdisciplinary approach. Michigan's Nonprofit and Public Management Center brings together students from Ross, Ford, and SSW. If you look at the student advisory board, you'll see it's a total mix from the three schools. Michigan takes interdisciplinary to another level, that's why there's an insane amount of dual degree options, and even student-initiated dual degrees. What about a dual with a masters in urban planning with a focus on housing, community and economic development? Or something else? Third, one of the first post-admit emails we get is for the Bohnett Fellowship at the Detroit Mayor's office, and here you're interested in local/state government? Fourth, you're not going to have any trouble placing into Chicago from UMich.

I'm totally biased since I have the same offer on the table (which I took immediately), and want to study education policy and local and state government. As 12WardP said, this is the school to do it. I wouldn't turn my offer down for any other school on the planet. For you to think about turning down a monster package from Ford for no offer in hand from Harris, I do actually think that's completely bonkers!!

Come to Ford!

[state_school'12]

I'll just add that there is something about Harris' curriculum that captivates me. They have a lot of courses, and reading the descriptions and syllabi leads me to the conclusion that these are very, very substantial courses.

But that's where the attraction to Harris ends, aside from the brand of the university, and its location. I want to start a thread titled, "What's the deal with Harris?" I've found those occasional negative comments from Harris students deeply troubling. Also, watching On the MaPP from 2010 I wasn't very impressed with the dean/former dean. For what that's worth.

[RainbowInTheDark]

As someone who also has a huge interest in urban policy, I have practically ruled out Harris at this point. Conversations with two unsatisfied students (with similar interests to mine), plus the fact that Harris' curriculum is quantitative almost to the exclusion of other relavent disciplines needed for sound policy analysis. Also, while Harris is located in Chicago, it actually has few links to the City, certainly nothing like NYU or USC's engagement with their respective metropolises. I went to UChicago for undergrad, and never noticed a Harris School presence in any of the community development or urban policy initiatives I got involved in.

That being said, I'm confident Harris is trying to change this reputation, and will be growing its "Urban Policy Initiative" in the near future. The new Institute for Politics with David Axelrod will certainly bring more discussion of local politics to the school.

Good luck!

[lottesnk]

Update: Admission confirmed!

Thanks for the feedback! I perused old threads, and saw that there is an element of dissatisfaction among Harris School students (actually, it reminded me why I didn’t apply to begin with! Haha!). But I’m sure most programs have a handful (or more) discontent students who haven’t “drank the Kool Aid” – even Ford!

It’s comforting to hear that there are other urban/local/state policy folks (possibly) joining me at the Ford School! My initial reservations stemmed from the concern that I wouldn’t find my academic niche within the school, like in undergrad. Or the program's focus and most students were int'l and federal policy oriented. However, I have spotted several professors in other U-M departments and in the Ford School that I hope I can take a course or two with. And I also checked out the Institute for Social Research, which has a long list of current projects.

That said, I'm happy with my choice and am attending Ford this fall! Woot!

P.S. @state_school'12 No, really, what is the deal with Harris?

[method]

Update: Admission confirmed!

Thanks for the feedback! I perused old threads, and saw that there is an element of dissatisfaction among Harris School students (actually, it reminded me why I didn’t apply to begin with! Haha!). But I’m sure most programs have a handful (or more) discontent students who haven’t “drank the Kool Aid” – even Ford!

It’s comforting to hear that there are other urban/local/state policy folks (possibly) joining me at the Ford School! My initial reservations stemmed from the concern that I wouldn’t find my academic niche within the school, like in undergrad. Or the program's focus and most students were int'l and federal policy oriented. However, I have spotted several professors in other U-M departments and in the Ford School that I hope I can take a course or two with. And I also checked out the Institute for Social Research, which has a long list of current projects.

That said, I'm happy with my choice and am attending Ford this fall! Woot!

P.S. @state_school'12 No, really, what is the deal with Harris?

Woohoo! Go Blue!!! I'll PM you in a bit here with my info, I'm sure we'll run into each other at school.

[TypeA]

Another thing about Michigan in general that I didn't see mentioned here is that the university has a really good reputation for allowing cross-school enrollment--this is something I've read on this board, and heard from current students at both Ford and the School of Public Health. So if Ford didn't offer a course in a particular subject you're interested in, TCAUP might have something. There's also a MUP/MPP dual-degree that you could apply for during your first semester at Ford, if you were so inclined.

Edited March 22, 2012 by TypeA

[lottesnk]

Thanks for the links, Type A! Taubman's coursework in economic and community development is exactly what I had in mind. At this point, I'm sold on the Ford School! In fact, I've already picked student groups and centers I'd like to join - even summer internships! I figure if a program is willing to make an investment in me through such a generous award, then I should take a chance on them too.

(And I probably should have done my homework before starting this thread. lol).

[rwest817]

Hi everyone,

I know this thread has more or less been brought to a conclusion, and it sounds like everyone is happy in their decisions (and congratulations to all the participants, by the way, on the great admits!). I am interested in social and urban policy, as well: specifically, domestic urban poverty. I was also offered full tuition at Ford (it sounds like they've been generous this year), and $20k at the Harris School. I've had have some of the same reservations about Harris as you have all expressed above, and would add that U Chicago's general reputation as a bastion for conservative economics gives me pause.....I visited during the application process, and something about the atmosphere made me slightly uncomfortable. Nonetheless, while the National Poverty Center (and Ford's reputation) are big draws for me, I've more or less decided I would like to be in or near a large city during grad school.

It looks like several of the posters got into other programs with funding. Did any of those interested in urban affairs or social policy give strong consideration to Duke, Berkeley, or Georgetown? @state_school'12 and @12WardP, have you two made decisions?

And is anyone planning to attend the open houses for the various programs over the next couple of weeks?

Thanks again for the helpful posts, everyone.

[12WardP]

Hi everyone,

I know this thread has more or less been brought to a conclusion, and it sounds like everyone is happy in their decisions (and congratulations to all the participants, by the way, on the great admits!). I am interested in social and urban policy, as well: specifically, domestic urban poverty. I was also offered full tuition at Ford (it sounds like they've been generous this year), and $20k at the Harris School. I've had have some of the same reservations about Harris as you have all expressed above, and would add that U Chicago's general reputation as a bastion for conservative economics gives me pause.....I visited during the application process, and something about the atmosphere made me slightly uncomfortable. Nonetheless, while the National Poverty Center (and Ford's reputation) are big draws for me, I've more or less decided I would like to be in or near a large city during grad school.

It looks like several of the posters got into other programs with funding. Did any of those interested in urban affairs or social policy give strong consideration to Duke, Berkeley, or Georgetown? @state_school'12 and @12WardP, have you two made decisions?

And is anyone planning to attend the open houses for the various programs over the next couple of weeks?

Thanks again for the helpful posts, everyone.

Hi rwest.

I did not apply to Berkeley or Gtown. I got solid funding from Duke, but the free ride from a reputable MPP program like Ford's makes this a no-brainer for me. My only curveball is that I haven't heard back from HKS about funding (Friday is the day). If it becomes clear on Friday that HKS is unaffordable, my choice will be Ford and I will look to make the trip up to Ann Arbor for the Saturday of its open house.

[fadeindreams]

Nonetheless, while the National Poverty Center (and Ford's reputation) are big draws for me, I've more or less decided I would like to be in or near a large city during grad school.

U-M is 40 minutes from Detroit. If you're interested in urban policy, particularly as it applies to revitalization or equity issues, Detroit may very well be the best big city to be near. Detroit has ample opportunities for the dedicated volunteer. U-M is also a mere 4 hours from Chicago. If I were in your position, I would take the full offer from Ford. You'll have plenty of opportunity to ply your skills in an urban setting, if you so choose.

I'm biased as a current Ford student, but I can't possibly think of a good enough reason why it'd be worth going into debt to go to Harris over Ford. I'd have an easier time defending the opposite. I wish you luck in making the right choice for you. Grad school should be about personal fit. For me, I have no doubt that U-M was the best choice I could have made.

[state_school'12]

Right now it's between Duke and Berkeley for me. Chicago is too expensive.

[rwest817]

Thanks so much for the responses, everyone. You make a good point, fadeindreams, about UMichigan's proximity to Detroit (and if ever there were a case study in contemporary American urban difficulties, Detroit would be in the running). It's encouraging to hear such enthusiasm for Ford after the mixed reviews on so many other programs' merits; it certainly makes me reconsider making the trip for the open house. In retrospect, I think I weighed far too heavily Chicago's prestigious reputation for economics -- but, of course, concern over the strength of the econ department should take a distant second to an evaluation of the public policy school itself.

Best of luck with funding at HKS, 12WardP. Perhaps I'll see you in Ann Arbor -- and state_school at Duke or Berkeley -- in the next couple of weeks

[state_school'12]

Hey rwest, I just rsvp'd for the Duke open house. And I'll be at the Berkeley open house as well. Hope to see you there.