Mech Eng PhD while working full time?

[adamgram]

Is it possible to get your PhD in Engineering while working full time outside of academia? I work in consulting engineering and am working on my Master's degree through night classes. I still have two years left to finish the MS degree, but I'm curious as to what my options will be in a few years. I'm already accustomed to doing both school and work at the same time, so I would be interested in continuing on for my PhD if it could be done through night classes the same way the MS program is. Is this possible?

My understanding is that when you get your PhD it is generally full time alongside a research job with pretty crappy pay. It is also, however, my understanding that this research is an important part of the PhD program so unlike the Master's program there is normally not a "take classes only" option for the PhD. I'd be interested in doing some research, but I don't really want to trade my good-paying job for a low-paying full time research assistant position.

My long term plan would be to continue working in consulting after getting my PhD for a few years, and then take a teaching job at a university. I would expect the PhD to take a long time doing it this way, so it would kind of be like planning ahead for an eventual change in careers from consulting, which is a good job for a young professional, to academia, which is a good place to work up to retirement age.

[Quantum Buckyball]

Is it possible to get your PhD in Engineering while working full time outside of academia? I work in consulting engineering and am working on my Master's degree through night classes. I still have two years left to finish the MS degree, but I'm curious as to what my options will be in a few years. I'm already accustomed to doing both school and work at the same time, so I would be interested in continuing on for my PhD if it could be done through night classes the same way the MS program is. Is this possible?

My understanding is that when you get your PhD it is generally full time alongside a research job with pretty crappy pay. It is also, however, my understanding that this research is an important part of the PhD program so unlike the Master's program there is normally not a "take classes only" option for the PhD. I'd be interested in doing some research, but I don't really want to trade my good-paying job for a low-paying full time research assistant position.

My long term plan would be to continue working in consulting after getting my PhD for a few years, and then take a teaching job at a university. I would expect the PhD to take a long time doing it this way, so it would kind of be like planning ahead for an eventual change in careers from consulting, which is a good job for a young professional, to academia, which is a good place to work up to retirement age.

Yes, it is possible to get your PhD while working full time. However, it will take you a lot longer to complete the degree though. I have a friend who is working full time as a consultant, and doing part time for her PhD degree in physical science. She is married and has a daughter.

I think you just need to make sure that your research advisor has a tenure track, and you can afford the tuition yourself, so a public school would be better.

Edited March 24, 2012 by SPDFG13579

[adamgram]

How does she handle the research requirements of the PhD program? Does she do work in a lab on campus in the evenings? Also, do you know anyone who does or has done this with Engineering?

[ktel]

I don't think you really understand what is involved in getting a PhD. You aren't a paid research assistant. You are expected to do novel research that contributes to your field. Research isn't an important part of a PhD program, it's the important part, without which no school would give you the degree.

[adamgram]

I don't think you really understand what is involved in getting a PhD.

That is correct, I do not. That is why I am posting.

Like I said earlier, I would be interested in doing research and I'm not trying to get out of it. My question is whether it is possible to do the research required of a PhD program without working in a lab full time. I don't really know what Engineering research is all about. I know some people with who have their PhD in a hard science and it sounds like when they were in school it was beyond a full time job but also included teaching and working for their advisers. That was the "job" part that they did to avoid paying tuition and for additional money.

What I want to do is pay my own tuition and work full time outside of academia instead of doing the TA / research assistant thing. I would still do my own research, assuming it could be done on a part-time basis. I might take classes one semester and then do research the next, or something along those lines. This would require some flexibility from my adviser, so I guess my question is whether or not there are programs that offer this kind of flexibility.

[ktel]

It would totally depend on the nature of the research that you're doing. I do a lot of computational work. It's very easy to do this work at home, at odd hours, etc. What is your Master's coursework in?

The way my department is set up, I get funding to do my research and only my research. Some funding packages require you to TA (teach) and/or RA (do somebody else's research). If you were working full time, funding would probably be less of an issue for you so you may be able to weasel out of TA or RA work. However, I wouldn't recommend forgoing teaching if you want to teach in the future. You would want some experience.

The only way to know if a program could accommodate your schedule is to get out there and ask. You could start with your current institution and see what the professors there think.

[adamgram]

Thanks for the response. I'm going for my Masters in Mechanical Engineering with a focus on fluids and heat transfer. I've just started (2 classes in, 8 to go) so I plan on inquiring with my department directly once I'm a little further along.

[ktel]

I see you're in Philadelphia, so this doesn't apply, but in Canada you actually wouldn't be able to enter a PhD program with your current course-based Master's. You would need research experience first. In the States its much more common for students to go straight from undergrad to PhD, so it might be OK, but you would be competing against people with research experience.

[sabdo]

Short answer: yes there are PhD programs were you can work full time on the side. They will take longer (~7 years) so you have to be OK with that.

I have a friend who got his PhD in electrical engineering from USC while working full time for JPL. Now I don't know the specifics of how that works however, I do know for a fact that it is possible.

[HassE]

In a general sense, no it's almost impossible for this to occur. First of all, nearly every single PhD school mentions that you need to be a full-time student for at least a year or two. Let's just say hypothetically that you do complete the year or two in FT studies, when would you even have time to conduct research? Even though as an RA you only supposed to work 20 hours/week, it's almost rare for PhD students to only invest 20 hours/week for their research, its generally more like 40 hours if not even more.

Do people work full time while still earning a PhD? Absolutely, most likely what they do is they finish all their coursework and they get into a research based company which has good ties to the school. They'll also get funding from their company to conduct research for their company while still meeting the requirements of the local state school. So the company makes out because their getting quality research done from one of their employees, and the local state school makes out because their getting a fully funded student.

Doing it this way is perfect because that individual is still getting paid their lucrative salary, but their also not investing double time to do the work and requirements, their daily job is there research credit.

[AbaNader]

Is it possible to get your PhD in Engineering while working full time outside of academia? I work in consulting engineering and am working on my Master's degree through night classes. I still have two years left to finish the MS degree, but I'm curious as to what my options will be in a few years. I'm already accustomed to doing both school and work at the same time, so I would be interested in continuing on for my PhD if it could be done through night classes the same way the MS program is. Is this possible?

My understanding is that when you get your PhD it is generally full time alongside a research job with pretty crappy pay. It is also, however, my understanding that this research is an important part of the PhD program so unlike the Master's program there is normally not a "take classes only" option for the PhD. I'd be interested in doing some research, but I don't really want to trade my good-paying job for a low-paying full time research assistant position.

My long term plan would be to continue working in consulting after getting my PhD for a few years, and then take a teaching job at a university. I would expect the PhD to take a long time doing it this way, so it would kind of be like planning ahead for an eventual change in careers from consulting, which is a good job for a young professional, to academia, which is a good place to work up to retirement age.

I will not claim to necessarily add to what has already been (very eloquently) said, but here are some of my thoughts:

All schools typically have "residency" requirements of between 1 to 2 years. You have to be physically at the school doing research and collaborating with your adviser/other individuals during this period.

Coursework is not an integral part of the PhD. In fact, some schools do not require any coursework for their PhD students beyond their BS (such as Johns Hopkins). Does this mean you wouldn't take any courses? No, you would take some to cover the qualifying/oral/preliminary examinations and also some that your adviser would require you to as a (personal) rule or because it would benefit your research.

Learning how to do research, conducting research, learning to write scientific papers and contributing to the state-of-the-art, learning the psychological tricks-of-the-trade in order to make breakthroughs, learning how to advise/mentor future students, "inculcating" oneself in the research/academia culture of inquiry/collaboration/knowledge dissemination, and teaching are all goals of getting a PhD. It is ideally supposed to be a sandbox type of atmosphere for budding/aspiring scholars to learn their trade (research and "inquiring" into a particular area of science) in a low pressure setting. It is not always like that but the ratio of the pressure of the atmosphere to learning opportunities still makes it very much relevant compared to industry (where very novel research is seen as an expensive risk and where the learning opportunities at a high level are usually far and few in between).

I have known people who have done their PhD's while working full-time but their PhD work has invariably revolved around their full-time job. I had the opportunity to spend some time with Russell Enns of Boeing. He did his PhD at Arizona State (or University of Arizona, I'm not sure) while working full-time at Boeing out in Arizona (formerly Hughes Helicopters). The residency requirement meant he had to take a leave of absence from Boeing for an year or two but then he came back to the company. His work at Boeing as well in his PhD revolved around flight control methodologies for helicopters (highly nonlinear/coupled dynamics) so there was some synergism involved and he was more accurately working 1.5 jobs instead of 2! He is now an associate editor for the top aerospace control journal (AIAA Journal of Guidance, Control, and Dynamics) and a research fellow at Boeing.

Moral of the story: it can be done but your work should probably be aligned with it and you should make sure you have your heart in it as well. As a side note, I recall Enns chuckling dismissively when I suggested a raise/promotion at Boeing might have been his incentive for getting a PhD, "they don't care if you're a PhD or if you're a janitor, as long as you produce" (paraphrasing) - just in case you were considering doing a PhD for career opportunities, etc.

In any case, you are still fresh into your MS program so let your feet get wet a little before you consider doing this more seriously.

Good luck!

[MichaelLAndersonEE]

One of the posters is from Philadelphia.  Villanova has the only engineering PhD program I know of for working professionals.  It is fairly open ended, although expensive.