Decisions!!! Notes & Thoughts on New York City MSW Schools

[freedomstudent7]

I like many others out here am in the the thick of researching and making final decisions on MSW Grad schools. I applied to five Advanced Standing Programs, thinking I would get into at least one or two, but have been overwhelmed by the acceptance of 4 out of 4 so far! Which is totally cool, but also a lot as far as making choices. Not a terrible problem to have, just more work! As a part of my investigation I made this chart below based on my visits to New York City MSW programs. I thought it might be helpful to share and hear from others what sorts of things you all are looking at as well and how you are breaking down all the info from schools in making your final decisions. Obviously these are off the cuff comments from the tip of my brain on my interactions, visit, financial package, prestige, etc, so some of my notes might not be useful to you, but are important to me. At this point my top choice is CUNY Hunter, but it is the only school I have yet to hear back from. Like others I am out of state and had seen a post on the online app. "interview pending;" strangely though, that recently changed to "pending dean decision," with no invitation to an interview. DOn't know what that means, but I'm trying not to overanylize it either. Im just trying to look at the rest of the data and put the other schools in order of next choices if CUNY Hunter doesn't end up coming through. Take a look and offer any additional thoughts if you have them. I would greatly appreaciate it! and GOOD LUCK to all!!!

CUNY Hunter

Location/Neighborhood: Harlem

Cost: $21,700

Credits Required: 30ish

Types of programs/tracks: Clinical, Community Organizing, Group Work,

Program/track limitations/exemptions: Community Organizing Planning and Development (begins in summer), Clinical with Individuals and Families, Group Work, Organizational Management and Leadership. (I would have to choose Group Work or Clinical if I start in the Fall, since they are the only ones offered for Advanced Standing Students beginning in the fall. Both would satisfy LCSW clinical licensing requirements, COP&D would not. I have asked about their flexibility on start dates however have not heard back from them. Of course, I haven't gotten in yet, so they prob want to first see if I am worth their time.

Pre recs: none

Accept by date: Pending Dean decision, may or may not have an interview

Merit Scholarships Offered: unknown

On-campus housing available: no

Housing: $15,000ish

Books/Transportation/Personal: $5,790

Scholarship Options: Fastweb

Start/End Dates: Summer- Spring or Fall-Spring depending on the program I choose

Evening/Weekend Plan: none

Ranking: 16

Notes:

Had a really short but meaningful interaction with Admissions associate, Gwen when I first arrived. I had emailed her before my visit, and she remembered me which was awesome! She was awesome. I was not able to sit in on any classes, or meet anyone for a one on one Q & A, but I did attend the Info session. Before the session began Gwen and I sat in the back and chatted it up for about 10 minutes about NYC, Portland, BIDs, Homelessness, and Sit-lie, etc. She was really engaged in our conversation, and it felt natural, not like I was trying to get something out of it or prove anything. We just had one of those connections that you sometimes have with strangers. The info session brought a diverse group of folks: ages, genders, races,etc. The location is in bustling Harlem, which I loved. It is the most inexpensive school that I have applied to. 16^th ranked, so very good. Do have PhD option if I chose to go that route down the line. Diverse faculty committed to offering and providing an excellent education to all students, regardless of class or economic status. Very socially minded, with a social justice focus. Community connected. State school. My top choice Community Organizing track will begin in the summertime, so that is a conflict off the bat, since its almost summertime, and that gives me barely any time to prepare. I have an email into them addressing that. Have not heard back. Other tracks begin in Fall, but only certain tracks are offered for Advanced Standing, not all. I had a really good feeling about this school. It is one of the most selective MSW programs in the nation, at around 32% acceptance, so there is going to be a high caliber student being invited to study.

Columbia

Location/Neighborhood: Morningside Heights

Cost: $41,741

Credits Required: 36

Types of programs/tracks: Policy Practice, Clinical, Advanced Generalist Practice and Programming, and Social Enterprise Administration

Program/track limitations/exemptions:

Pre recs: Statistics must pass with a B or better to be admitted into the program OR must take a Stats intensive during the month of August before classes start. Will also have to do an additional Human Behavior Class, since I did not have two in my undergrad. This is in addition to the Advanced Standing course requirements over two semesters.

Accept by date: 30 April 2012

Merit Scholarships Offered: no package received at this time

On-campus housing available: yes, but limited, must accept by 1 May.

Housing: approx. $19,350

Books/Transportation/Personal: $5,790

Scholarship Options: yes, but limited due to late decision

Start/End Dates: End of Augustthrough May

News and World Report Ranking: 5

Notes:

I felt very good about Columbia when I visited. The school admissions folks were very welcoming and thoughtful. Went out of their way to answer lots of questions, give me a tour and lowdown, and help me sit in on a class even though I hadn't gotten into the school yet. When I did sit in on the class it was a review of expectations for assignments and papers related to class, then a movie with a short discussion. I felt like there were a few non-traditional (older) students, mostly white, two males, two African American students, an East Indian woman, and the rest Caucasian. The professor was a Caucasian lesbian, smart and engaging, but seemed to have been there for a long time, e.g. she was like in autopilot mode, and seemed to know all the right times to “turn on passion.” I didn't really jive with her vibe. Haven't seen the financial package yet, but its the most expensive school I got into. I feel like Columbia could be a good choice for the name, since who knows what kind of work I will end up in down the line, political, teaching, etc. Both of these routes could make the name worth the money. It could also like NYU, get me places without trying (again, weird but true) offer me connections to lots more places in the more policy/political/social/teaching realms. Also, its the highest rated school of all that I got into, so it is very well respected. They have a couple concentrations that seem up my alley, Administrative and Social Enterprising, Policy and General practice.

Yeshiva

Location/Neighborhood: Washington Heights

Cost: $28,800, $960/credit

Credits Required: 30

Types of programs/tracks: ? Couldn't find

Program/track limitations/exemptions:

Pre recs: none

Accept by date: Beginning of May 2012

Merit Scholarships Offered: $9,000 with possibility of appeal up to $12,000, need based

On-campus housing available: no

Housing: $15,000

Books/Transportation/Personal: $5,790

Scholarship Options: yes but limited due to late decision

Start/End Dates: fall to spring or summer?

Evening/Weekend Plan: yes

^{Ranking: 52}

^Notes:

^{Good experience at Yeshiva for the most part. I got to meet the Dr. who interviewed me. She was very accommodating and helpful, answered questions, gave a tour, let me sit in on a class. Felt like she was a little nervous and like she really wanted me to come there and was trying to make the school look appealing, made me wonder why she didn't seem to have confidence in what she was offering.. In a very bustling neighborhood, mostly Dominicans, high Latin population. I could dig the hood. Willing to work with me on getting more finances if need be, said that the 9,000 could go up to 12,000 if I appealed for need. I sat in on a class. The professor was awesome. She was smart and quick. Felt like she was ahead of the students in a way that pulled them toward the learning process. Class was small. Not very diverse in age or race, one African American Woman, one man, mostly young students with a couple older. I felt like a few students kind of dominated the class when the prof elicited discussion. Felt like I could learn a lot from the prof, but didn't again feel like I was sitting amongst peers in the work. Maybe my expectations are too high.. I am a little torn about Yeshiva. It has small classes, yay! Profs seem bright and genuinely engaging, which I didn't get much of at NYU or Columbia, strangely enough..what else? That financial package could be rad for sure..hmm}

New York University

Location/Neighborhood: Greenwich Village, Washington Square

Cost: $34,424

Credits Required: 32 (16 fall, 16 spring)

Types of programs/tracks: Clinical

Pre recs: none

Accept by date: 30 April 2012

Merit Scholarships Offered: $9,000 offered may appeal for additional; need based only

Scholarships: can apply for three max from online list

On-campus housing available: yes

Housing: $13,500ish

Books/Transportation/Personal: $5,790

Scholarship Options: http://www.nyu.edu/s...holarships.html

Start/End Dates: 4 Sept. - May 2013

Evening/Weekend Plan: one evening one Sat option every week

News and World Report Ranking: 16th

Notes:

Only one track. A lot of NYU Grads stay in NYC and will hire an NYU Grad. Major connections in the city. Seen as an excellent school. Lacking in supervision in internships..Big problem across the board. Willing to extend my decision date if need be. Going to NYU would be great if I am going to be seen as legitimate in the field with nothing else on my side (strangely), or if I want to be able to name drop. Clinical track does not seem to be the route I am most interested in pursuing, so will learn a lot of new cool things and be eligible to begin LCSW hours upon completion. Diversity is lacking, class sizes are small. Didn't feel that excited about going to NYU. Seemed like there was a lacking of students in the classroom that I would consider peers. Mostly young white women, with the exception of two older students, who were career changers, one a lesbian lawyer, and another who was moving from HR consulting. A lot of the students gripped to the professor about the grades they received on the papers they wrote, complaining of B grades, and because they were in a class with a teacher who did not inflate their grades. Interesting. It seemed like they were mostly interested in taking in info for tests than in digging into the material and having a thoughtful discussion. They seemed board with the professor. She wasn't steller by any means. Shes been there a long time and appeared tired and also very traditional in that she lectured and the students listened for the most part. It was interesting to observe the racial micro aggressions happening in the classroom as well, most students, young white women, and the professor an older African American woman. A lot of snickering, and discounting, maybe race wasn't the issue for the most part, but it was mentioned at one point, when one student said that the professor didn't like Freud because he was a white man. ! Really? Yes. This was my experience at NYU, lots of infighting and focus on grades rather than digging into the material. In the last class I went to, a prof played a movie most of the period and we had a discussion about it. It was a documentary about race and talking about race in America with about 8 participants. I felt like it was a cop out to show that discussion rather, why didn't the professor facilitate or challenge us to partake in such a discussion ourselves? Although as I mention this and think about the students who where there, I can make a good guess as to why not.. Not that impressed, except that they have a good name. They also offered me $9,000 with the possibility of more.

Fordham

Location/Neighborhood:

33 W. 60th Street, New York, NY 10023-7484

Cost: $28,068 total$836 per credit + Fees

Credits Required: 33

Types of programs/tracks: 1. Clinical 2. Leadership& Macro Practice 3. Research

http://www.fordham.edu/academics/colleges__graduate_s/graduate__profession/social_service/degree_programs_basw/master_of_social_wor/prospective_msw_stud/plans_of_study/advanced_standing_pl_22290.asp

Pre recs: none

Accept by date: May 2012

Merit Scholarships Offered: none

On-campus housing available: no

Housing: $17,000

Books/Transportation/Personal: $5,790

Scholarship Options: yes, but limited because of late decision

Start/End Dates: 25 Aug-May

News and World Report Ranking: 11

Notes:

Very unfortunate interface with Fordham leading up to my visit. Emails sent, phone calls made with no responses. I even called a few days before I would be coming, targeted the admissions director, with no responses. When I visited I was only interested in saying hello, and if questions could be answered even better, but really just wanted to put a face to my name. The admissions director was in the room over and said she could not meet me, with me standing right outside. It seemed to be an uncomfortable situation for the secretary when she came to report the interaction, who then told me to come back in an hour so I could maybe meet with someone else, no go. She did insure I could call in a few days and there would be a decision. She said not to worry, my GPA was great. Oh yeah, while I waited for the possible visit with Admissions person I was somehow able to sneak into the Fordham MSW classroom and faculty area after schmoozing the security guard, and spoke with a dean there for a little bit, who had a desk full of papers and looked really busy! She was very nice and answered a few questions I had. She also said it would be good to check in w admissions! Duh! Anyway, I didn't feel that great about them. They are 11^th ranked, known, but kind of mysterious, don't know a ton about their tracks, but my turn off from my bad first impressions has probably not made them that exciting to me, so I haven't researched the details much. No financial package offered.

^Questions:

Any tracks I am not eligible for as an Advanced Standing Student? Any special start dates or end date expectations due to type of track chosen?

Which tracks will not offer the 12 clinical units for LCSW licensing?

^{Strengths of each track? Why would someone take the Research concentration? Do students mostly choose what they are already doing or what they are less familiar with? Would it be useful to learn certain baseline perspectives if I were thinking of teaching down the line? Is one concentration seen as “the easy one” and not looked at as seriously?}

^{Is there thought about what concentration someone chooses in their MSW or only PhD that matters?}

Will I be able to take a smaller load and finish later, for example in the summertime? Specific to Columbia

^{Would you be willing to defer my acceptance until Spring or next Fall? Due to financial barriers?}

^{What other questions have I forgotten or stats have I left out of the specs on schools?}

[mhatchMSW2014]

Wow. Very well thought out! Where have you decided to go?

I'm trying to decide between Columbia and Fordham. I have my deposit down on Columbia and just got accepted from Fordham last Friday. I had mostly good interactions with Columbia and really like how many options there are in the curriculum. I know i want clinical, comm organizing, and leadership skills to be ready for wide array of jobs, but I'm mainly interested in international development from the angle of girl and women's empowerment. Columbia's AGPP track seems like a good fit for that and so does the opportunity to take classes in other schools, like their international school. It's hard, however, not to be scared by the price tag, esp for this line of work. How does everyone plans to pay down their debt? Mine will be significant, esp once I add on my undergraduate loans and my parents aren't able to help. The attitude that came up often at the accepted students day - "no doubts about it: we're the best program out there and the name is worth it." There was little humility and discussion about how to manage the debt afterward.

I've also been reading through a booklet that was handed out on a visiting day by current students in one of the caucuses (Social Workers fo Anti-oppression, Equality, and Equity. It's called "Legitimizing inner stories: truth and narratives" and includes a number of anonymous poetry and short essays and drawings that seem to rant against the institution of columbia and administration that isn't so keen on divining into topics of identity, race, privilege, oppression, etc. One segment is a process recording (which I think is a standard practice for social work learning and self-evaluation. It says, "At CUSSW, it seems like my classmates are talking about anti oppression, but only to the extent that they need to for the readings. I thought we would have intense 'cultural competency workshops' where I would get to examine how my elitism and my male privilege affect my ability to do the work..." Hmmm...this dialogue is troubling b/c I feel like difficult discussions of race, power, privilege should be integral to the study and practice of social work. So CUSSW isn't where it should be in that area, but it sounds like students are starting to speak up about it and change things.

Fordham on the other hand seems more deliberate about focusing their education around these issues. My initial interactions with them a few months ago weren't that great - they were unresponsive to e-mails and calls. But my view of them started to change after an info session/cocktail hour when over 15 professors came and current students. Many were Fordham grads but others had their MSW and PhD from Columbia, yet they raved about Fordham and the strength of its community. They really emphasized their focus on human rights and social justice. Same topics came up in a call with two reps from admission today. it was great conversation and i learned a bit more about how I could engage more with the school by doing an assistantship (hopefully with someone from the Women and Girls Institute). I'm starting to lean more to Fordham, especially because it's so much cheaper. On the other hand, I'm having a hard time pulling away from the "amazing opportunity," and identity boost Columbia claims to be.

It's late and I'm tired. Sorry my thoughts aren't clearer. I'd love to hear what you ended up deciding and if you have any tips.

[vpsf]

Thanks for this thread! I wasn't able to visit any east coast schools before making my decisions, so this has been very helpful. In regards to "non-traditional (older)" students, I feel like state schools (CSUs since I'm not familiar with other states) are the programs that have more of these students since they offer more evening classes or 3 year programs. I spoke to admissions at Columbia, UChicago, and UPenn and learned that the majority of the cohort are straight out of undergrad. then there are those who have been out of school for 1-2 yrs. and a sprinkling of students who've been out of school for much longer. I feel like diversity is lacking in any school, state or not, because the profession is basically dominated by white women (~80% according to NASW stats.), but at least CSUs offer some age diversity. Should make for an interesting experience for me as one of the few students of color.

Based on what I've heard, CUNY seems like an excellent program! I hope you got in! The only reason I didn't apply to CUNY or Fordham is because I want to come back to San Francisco, or who knows where I'll end up in the future...maybe abroad, so I was concerned that employers outside of the NY/east coast area might not be as familiar with these schools. It seems like those within the area know how great CUNY's program is, but I don't know if the same can be said about those in other states or abroad. I could be completely wrong though. If not CUNY then you should join me at Columbia!

mhatch: I have similar concerns as you. Maybe it's the students in the class that influence the depth of these discussions? You should join me at Columbia too! I want more classmates like you who will bring depth to these discussions. Part of my personal statement was about the need for cultural competency, so my biggest concern about CUSSW is exactly what you stated.

How do I plan on paying for it all? It was tough justifying the cost of tuition. I've been working at non-profits for years while living in a very expensive city (almost as expensive as NYC, if not more), so I wasn't able to save as much for grad. school as I would have liked, but I did manage to squirrel away some money. After a while, I learned how to live comfortably on a non-profit salary and be ok with a large chunk of my paycheck going towards rent. I'm also going into this debt-free (already paid off undergrad. loans), so I have more wiggle room to take on new debt. I have some savings, Columbia's scholarship, unsubsidized grad. loan, and I qualify for an interest-free loan from this awesome non-profit agency because of the type of non-profit I currently work for (this is how I was able to pay off my undergrad. loans). Otherwise, I would have to go to a big bank like Wells Fargo to borrow the rest of the student loans, which I wanted to avoid. I also found out recently that my program ran out of funding, so they're laying me off at the end of the fiscal year (couldn't have applied to grad. school at a better time-phew!), so I'll have some unemployment to get me through for a bit which will be super helpful. I plan to pay the interest for the unsubsidized grad. loan while in school instead of waiting until I graduate to help keep the principle amount down. There are loan calculators online that'll help you figure out your monthly payment and the amount of interest you'll pay during the life of the loan. I think it's important to have an idea of how much your monthly payments will be to make sure you can manage it. Some people take out loans without really knowing then they're shocked after the 6 month grace period ends when they see the min. payment! Lastly, my fiance is relocating with me, so we'll be able to split a lot of expenses with him, which should slightly reduce my overall living expenses and amount of student loans I would have to borrow.

Like you, I'm also interested in international social welfare (also clinical with youth and families). Come to Columbia! Let's make some changes. At this point, I'm crossing my fingers that I'll be able to meet a few classmates who share similar passions and a willingness to examine/recognize social issues, personal biases, etc. If students don't get this in the classroom then they'll certainly get it at their field placements! There's nothing like working on the front lines to make one recognize and examine the injustices of the world.

Good luck with your final decision! I definitely understand what you're going through. I grappled with my choices for a long time before making my decision. My coworker's partner did her MSW at Smith and is now working on her phd there and she said Columbia is a great school for social work. I know this is only one person's opinion, but it made me feel a little better about my choice to take on so much debt. I also have a friend who has a hand full of friends who just graduated from CUSSW last year. 1 didn't really like the program, 1 had mixed reviews, and the others liked the program (all have jobs now). I need to email them to ask for their feedback, what types of jobs they landed post-grad., and will share it on the forum once I hear back.

Edited May 6, 2012 by vpsf