Is it harder to get funding as an international?

[vienneselights]

I've heard this on the internet, though I've had no confirmation from flesh-and-blood academics.

I've also heard that it's harder to get into a US grad programme as an international, like it is (apparently) for undergrad.

[TakeruK]

Yes it is harder for an international student to get funding. I have experienced this as an international student applying to schools and "flesh and blood academics" (i.e. faculty at schools I applied to as well as my current school) have told me it is true as well -- so that's at least a secondary source, I think!

But this is more likely to be true in public schools, where in-state and domestic student tuition is subsidized by American taxpayers so us internationals cost a lot more, which means our departments have to spend a lot more money to fund us. With overhead, a prof who used to work at a US school told me that we cost over 100,000 USD per year, each. It does make sense that international tuition is higher, but Canadian taxpayers subsidize our tuition a lot more AND international tuition is lower, just saying

We also don't qualify for as many external awards. For example, when I got accepted to one school, they sent all their students a message saying "apply to NASA grants X, Y and Z". When I checked the conditions for eligibility, it clearly says "US citizens only". I think your best bet for external awards is something from your own government, some multinational exchange program (e.g. Fulbright), or internal awards specifically for international students (rare).

However, my profs here have told me that they expected me to have a much higher chance of getting into a high ranked private school than slightly lower ranked public schools. This did turn out to be the truth -- I'm going to Caltech this fall but I was rejected at all the UC schools I applied to (Berkeley, Santa Cruz). In addition, 30% international student rate seems to be normal from looking at the NRC(?) Doctoral Program rankings data but the UC system has only a 10% international student population!!

[vienneselights]

Ahh life is good for super good looking females with a high GPA:)

Are you guys in the sciences? What about the humanities? In stuff like Literature, especially, I imagine few internationals are around (except for icky brits), so perhaps the divide is not so stark, what with diversity and all that.

[Ennue]

I'm doing a phd program at a public university with 5 years guaranteed funding - I must be smoking hot!

[delight]

Based on what I saw during my grad. visit....roughly 30% of TA's are internationals. the rest are Americans

There were 4 internationals, 2 guys and 2 girls..... 3 of them are chinese (which is not surprising since there's one Chinese prof.) One of them is a Sri-Lankan chick (super cute, average GPA).

My hypothesis for u:

-> If u r a super good looking female with average GPA, u'll get the funding

-> if u r Chinese who's able to speak Mandarin, AND there's one super smart Chinese prof, u'll get the funding

-> If u r slightly above average American, u'll get the funding (since they prioritize the American first)

-> If u r average looking international guy with above average GPA and Letter of Recommendation....better start looking for a student loan!

I don't know if I can take this post seriously or not. I hope this is meant to be a humorous jab at personal misfortune (i.e. not having funding).

[avicus]

I don't know if I can take this post seriously or not. I hope this is meant to be a humorous jab at personal misfortune (i.e. not having funding).

I am an international student, who is definitely NOT a super-good-looking female with high GPA (on both counts).

I got full funding for my 1st year of my doctoral program in an STEM field, at a public university (suffice to say it's one of the Public Ivies).

FYI, I am an "average looking international guy..." mentioned in romeo2die's post.

[t1racyjacks]

Ahh life is good for super good looking females with a high GPA:) Are you guys in the sciences? What about the humanities? In stuff like Literature, especially, I imagine few internationals are around (except for icky brits), so perhaps the divide is not so stark, what with diversity and all that.

I'm in the humanities, but unfortunately I am neither British nor American. From what you say I fear that my chances are even crappier than I think they are -- given that one *assumes* that 'few internationals' would be doing English ('the international' sounds like some sort of dystopian government). I've had too much of the 'O you are not English/American/Australian/Canadian and therefore cannot write grammatically' sort of argument....

[vienneselights]

Did you graduate from what people in the West think of as an English-speaking university?

Cos that erases any doubts, generally speaking. Singapore shouldn't be so difficult, since people kinda sorta know that English is the working language, but I think they associate it more with STEM.

It's just that one hears and sees international people getting into good grad programs and even getting TT jobs in sucky fields, but then one wonders, how is it then harder for internationals?

[TakeruK]

It's just that one hears and sees international people getting into good grad programs and even getting TT jobs in sucky fields, but then one wonders, how is it then harder for internationals?

I don't think it's a logical leap to go from "we observe international people getting into good grad programs and getting TT jobs" to "it must be just as easy for internationals to do this as domestic students"

There is a "observation bias" -- it's a lot easier to hear about / see international students that are successful than the ones that weren't! And as I said above, public schools in some places (e.g. California) are less likely to take international students due to the increased costs. So, it might be easier for international students to get into private schools, which often have the reputation of "good grad programs". I know the University of California schools have only a 10% international graduate student population in my fields (and some of them accept less than 10 people a year, so that's < 1 international per year!!). We also cost more overhead too, I think, and we aren't eligible for many grants that could offset these costs for the department/school.

In addition, international students face additional challenges when it comes to immigration. If we have dependents, it is pretty hard to provide for them on just a graduate student stipend and most dependents are grad students would not be able to work. Of course, no one is forcing us to go to another country for school, and most of these issues are completely out of the University's control. But if Universities want to attract international students, these extra challenges should be considered.

And finally, there are disadvantages because we are foreign. For example, a domestic student may attend an undergrad institution that's well known in the US for having very tough grading, so this could be taken into account when considering the GPA. But people in the US may not know much about schools in other countries, so foreign students may not have this benefit. There are also extra logistical issues for both student and admissions committees to convert a foreign grading system to the US system. Logistics issues also mean that it's rare that a school will fly an international student out to visit, which is a very important part of the decision making process, I think.

I'm not saying that International students have it harder than every other "group" of applicants. I just wanted to say that there is definitely "observation bias" since it's much easier to hear about successful international applicants. And that there are some issues (e.g. the above) that a domestic student in the same conditions would not have to deal with.

[vienneselights]

Thanks TakeruK for the detailed answer. I gleaned from it that my question was wrong - a lot of the stuff you describe I think stems from a non US undergrad education, so I should have asked about citizenship and UG institution separately. That said, grants, employment, and other moneys are certainly a concern of any international student, so in a way we do kinda have it harder in the long runD:

Observation bias is indeed a very valid concern, but I think you may have a STEM observation bias yourself. Another 'empirica'l finding in the field I'm looking at is that a lot (LIKE UPWARDS OF HALF) of grad students are foreign born, and a significant subset are also foreign-educated, not at Oxbridge. I am also looking at a science field (broad interests, might cave in and do Geography) and there, indeed, grants even at the undergrad level are unavailable for internationals unless they 'contact personally the researcher they're interested in'. In fields where there are no grants, where it matters what you've read, where you've had access to fieldwork, and what languages you know, internationals aren't so severely disadvantaged.

P.S. is your planetary science degree part of the earth sciences dept or no?

[TakeruK]

That's a good point about STEM bias! In addition to what you said, it might also have to do with the number of people applying. A prof I know used to work in the US said that the majority of their applications came from Internationals (>75%), so even if 30-50% of a cohort is International, they might have also had to compete with many more people to get in. But that might also be an issue specific to STEM as well! I guess it's hard to say anything for sure since the process is pretty opaque.

I've heard from others in my field that for a International student with a US Undergrad, the only issue is the increased cost for the department to pay for tuition and overhead so it's definitely a different story!

At my undergrad and my current MSc school, I am in a Physics & Astronomy department but both thesis topics were in planetary sciences. It's a really small field in Canada since it was basically invented by Americans and NASA. At my PhD program this fall, I will be in a Geological and Planetary Sciences division -- so I think Earth science people are connected with the division as well!