Getting a Ph.D in Art History with no background

[dementagirl]

Hi guys,

I'm in the process of changing my career goals from writing to art history. I want to be an outsider art/folk art curator now after working on a musical about Henry Darger. I'm about to enter Western Kentucky's Folk Studies grad program but I feel that if I want to go farther, I need to get a Ph.D. My dream three programs are UNC-Chapel Hill, Columbia or NYU but I feel that in order to be even considered for those programs, I need to get another masters that just focuses on Art History. Do to crazy nature of my B.A. I never got the chance to take an Art History class, so I'm worried that I may not get into an Art History program. I'm willing to pull some crazy stunts to look as good as possible but if anyone has any suggestions about how to improve my chances at getting into a top program, I'm all ears.

[fullofpink]

To be a curator of Outsider Art alone, you can probably do well with a MA (and some museum administration curriculum) and work at smaller, regional museums. There were a few job listings that fell under that category lately, and they required only a BA because they aren't high-demand - I have no idea who was hired to fill these positions, but I would definitely assume a MA would suffice.

[Mitleachim]

It's do-able, it just takes some work is all. One of my professors received her B.A. in Religious studies and decided that she wanted to get her Ph.D. in Art History. If I remember correctly she didn't recommend it because you're mostly going in with a blank slate, and have to spend a lot of time playing catch-up, but obviously with a lot of work it's accomplishable. Take a few upper level undergrad classes if possible, or just see if a professor will let you sit in on class so you know what you're in for. The writing style is the only thing that will take some getting use to, and like the previous person said, if you can get away with just a M.A. then consider yourself lucky.

[dementagirl]

Fullofpink, Where did they advertised the Outsider art curator jobs? Mitleachim, I'm hoping that I may only have to get an M.A. but the person at the Folk Art Museum in NYC i've been emailing with has been telling me that the Ph.D is basically becoming a standard part of a future curator's resume which is making me feel hopeless and crazy. I think I may have an Decorative Arts internship thanks to a former professor next summer at the Indiana Museum of Art which might help me in the long run but I've been researching other internships, fellowships, all those ships with a few name-brand museums. How is the writing different out of curiosity? I've written academic papers before and the like but is there something I need to watch out for in the Art History field? Thank you for answering my neurotic questions, I highly appreciate it.

[violetvivian]

Just a heads up: you may have difficulty finding an art historian to advise you in a PhD in this specialization at the particular schools you mentioned. I can't think of anyone on faculty at Columbia, NYU or UNC-CH who would be a good fit for an "outsider art" project--perhaps folk art more broadly. If you are set on UNC or NYU you may want to look instead to the American Studies/Folklore faculty and Visual Culture faculty respectively. If you'd like more specific information feel free to PM me.

[fullofpink]

Violetvivian is right: Getting a PhD on outsider art alone will be the first challenge, the second is finding a curating job where you only concentrate on outsider/folk art might also be extremely difficult. While there are a limited number of people who specialize in this area, the jobs tend to be held until death or retirement, so if a job opens up there is less competition; however, given the current market, I wouldn't be surprised if things have changed a bit. [At my alma mater, the person who studies outsider art is the african-american professor].

There are so many circumstances that must be examined. For instance, if you are hell-bent on living in NYC then you might need to get a PhD concentrating on 20th-century art with a specialization in outsider art. However, now you are competing with all the mod/con people and even then, the curating jobs just in folk art are few.

I stressed the MA because the MA programs allow a lot more flexibility in terms of research and you are perfectly qualified for small museum curating jobs with that degree and that specialization (if you have a lot of museum administrative experience already).

I know I saw a job with a concentration on folk on AAM HQ, but I don't recall the exact title - I feel like it may have been in Virginia - I also saw a few opportunities in Utah (these mostly fall under national park sites, etc.). If you're the adventurous type.

[dementagirl]

Fullofpink, I'm totally ok with going to someplace like Utah or Virginia. I am a wanderer at heart so being able to lay my head in an unexperienced city sounds awesome to me. I sort of want to go back to New York for a couple of years to be with the person i've been seeing and to play auntie to all my friends's kids, Its not my end-all-be-all like it used to but I miss living there. I've been talking with my advisor at WKU who suggests focusing on something like the Arts and Crafts movement in order to broaden my horizons. I'll take a gander at AAM to keep an eye out. I guess with the idea of an MA, I wonder if having a second MA in just Art History would either strengthen my chances of getting a job at a smaller museum or hurt them. I'm sorry if i'm sounding like a neurotic looney. I was a lot more confident about how I was going about the grad path until everyone and their momma decided that they had something to say about how to be a folk art curator. That and the lady at the folk art museum in NYC just reaming out with all kinds of disheartening facts about how educated I have to be in order to ride the rollercoaster.

[d1991]

At UNC, there are at least 2 professors in the American Studies/Folklore department who specialize in folk visual culture. One of them curated/wrote the catalog for a Thornton Dial exhibition for the university art museum this semester. I can't think of anyone in the art department who specializes in that subject matter.

[Shelley Burian]

If this is really what you want to do, then you can't let the negativity get to you. Those working in museums are very wary right now of advising others to enter the field because of the job situation, which is almost as bad as that for academics. I am not a folk art person but as someone already working as a curator I can tell you that it is a very hard life, but loving the work makes up for it. The key as far as I can see is not only the degree but a matching level of experience since being a curator requires practical and administrative skills as well as academic skills. Start volunteering and interning in collections as early and as often as you can, and try to get some experience in every aspect of curation.