My chances in a Sociology MA in the US/Canada

[peguim]

Hello there,

Hope there is someone who might be able to help me choose a good university for me to choose to apply for the academic year of 2013/14. I am currently finishing my BA in Sociology at the University of Essex (UK) and I hope to apply for a Sociology / Political Sociology masters degree in the USA / Canada.

I will finish my degree with a first (= 3.8-4 GPA). I have pretty good letters of recommendation (one of them coming from one of the best academics on my field) and I have increased around 5 points of my average marks (british system) at every year of my degree. Ohh and I have done an exchange year abroad in Japan... In addition to this, I am only 20 years old. I am Portuguese so maybe I could also play the international/diversity card hehe. I haven't done the GRE test yet.

I was considering applying to Toronto / UCLA / Brown / Purdue / Vanderbilt / Wisconsin. Do I have any chances of getting in? Am I aiming too high? Could I do better? What other universities do you think I should consider applying?

Any comment at all would help! I am really in need of help right now! Thanks in advance!

[Karlito]

It all depends on what subfields of sociology you are interested in.

Edit: Re-reading your post, if it's an MA and not a Ph.D you are interested in, interests are probably less relevant. What are the reasons behind the fact that you are applying to an MA you are probably going to have to pay for and not a fully funded Ph.D?

Edited May 28, 2012 by Karlito

[Ladril]

I would like to ask whether you have any research experience. Most of the schools you listed are top programs, which are difficult to get into. They will definitely be looking at your prior research work.

Essex is one of the top UK Sociology departments, so I'd say you have a good chance.

[peguim]

Based on what I read on the past days those uni's that I mentioned would all entirely fund my masters program. Do you recommend me going straight to a Ph.D then? Is it much more common to get fully funded for a Ph.D. than with a masters? Won't I have lesser chances of getting in since the only actual research I have done was in completion of my bachelor?

My area of research is Political Sociology / Cultural Sociology / National Identity / Art.

If you were me, which two of all those unis I mentioned would you apply to? To how many universities is it common to apply when someone is in my situation?

Thank you for your replies!

Edited May 28, 2012 by peguim

[Ladril]

Based on what I read on the past days those uni's that I mentioned would all entirely fund my masters program. Do you recommend me going straight to a Ph.D then?

There is no clear cut answer. Some people enter prestigious masters programs looking for connections with faculty, graduate level training, and/or more research experience, in hopes this will make them stronger candidates for doctoral programs. Some others manage to obtain enough experience and good enough letters of recommendation as undergraduates that they manage to be admitted directly to doctoral level.

Another group is composed of people who apply to doctoral programs and are accepted to masters programs instead because their credentials were not considered good enough for a straight to PhD admission. Many people in this situation later take another shot at applying to doctoral programs.

An important factor to keep in mind is that a doctoral program in Sociology in an American university usually takes 5-7 years to complete. This is why many people try to begin doctoral studies as soon as they can.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Ladril

[peguim]

There is no clear cut answer. Some people enter prestigious masters programs looking for connections with faculty, graduate level training, and/or more research experience, in hopes this will make them stronger candidates for doctoral programs. Some others manage to obtain enough experience and good enough letters of recommendation as undergraduates that they manage to be admitted directly to doctoral level.

Another group is composed of people who apply to doctoral programs and are accepted to masters programs instead because their credentials were not considered good enough for a straight to PhD admission. Many people in this situation later take another shot at applying to doctoral programs.

An important factor to keep in mind is that a doctoral program in Sociology in an American university usually takes 5-7 years to complete. This is why many people try to begin doctoral studies as soon as they can.

Thank you very much Ladril, your input is extremely helpful! It would be great if you guys could give your opinion about which of the unis I mentioned (or others) I have an higher possibility of entering because it ends up quite expensive to apply to more than two universities. Is it even worth trying?

I forgot to mention that the only significant research I have done was my dissertation at the end of my bachelor. I am quite satisfied with it and my supervisor told me it was one of the best undergraduate works she has ever read but then again... it is the only actual research project I have ever done.

[Ladril]

Thank you very much Ladril, your input is extremely helpful! It would be great if you guys could give your opinion about which of the unis I mentioned (or others) I have an higher possibility of entering because it ends up quite expensive to apply to more than two universities. Is it even worth trying?

All the programs you listed are super-competitive, so you definitely need to apply to more than two of them. The only one I know nothing about is Purdue. Most people would consider themselves very lucky to be admitted to one of your choices.

[peguim]

All the programs you listed are super-competitive, so you definitely need to apply to more than two of them. The only one I know nothing about is Purdue. Most people would consider themselves very lucky to be admitted to one of your choices.

By the way, I forgot to mention I will have a safe choice in University of Copenhagen. I got accepted this year but refused because I am doing a volunteering gap year. Does four applications seem like a good number then? What could I possibly do to improve my chances?

[Ladril]

By the way, I forgot to mention I will have a safe choice in University of Copenhagen. I got accepted this year but refused because I am doing a volunteering gap year. Does four applications seem like a good number then?

I applied to six last year. Many people apply to ten or more.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Ladril

[peguim]

A applied to six last year. Many people apply to ten or more.

I guess I'll just apply for as many as I can then. Problem now is to choose which ones as I don't have any background info besides what is told in their respective websites. At the moment I am thinking about Toronto, Vanderbilt, Purdue, Wisconsin, UCLA and Brown...

[Ladril]

I guess I'll just apply for as many as I can then. Problem now is to choose which ones as I don't have any background info besides what is told in their respective websites. At the moment I am thinking about Toronto, Vanderbilt, Purdue, Wisconsin, UCLA and Brown...

Copenhaguen is a great university. Why do you want to go the USA?

If you're definitely going to the US, the most important ranking for American sociology programs is considered to be this one:

http://grad-schools....iology-rankings

There is also another ranking by the NRC (see summary in comment no. 5).

http://orgtheory.wor...e-nrc-book-yet/

The NRC Ranking is considered highly flawed, but it contains many of the same universities as the US News one.

You would have to visit each program's webpage to see whether it meets your interests.

However - and this is very important - these rankings are based on the quality of the doctoral programs. There is no ranking of masters Sociology programs I'm aware of. Some schools with little or no presence in the rankings have excellent masters programs. University of North Carolina Charlotte, for example, has very good reputation.

Another user attempted a thread on good masters program. Here is what people came up with:

Edited May 28, 2012 by Ladril

[peguim]

Copenhaguen is a great university. Why do you want to go the USA?

If you're definitely going to the US, the most important ranking for American sociology programs is considered to be this one:

http://grad-schools....iology-rankings

There is also another ranking by the NRC (see summary in comment no. 5).

http://orgtheory.wor...e-nrc-book-yet/

The NRC Ranking is considered highly flawed, but it contains many of the same universities as the US News one.

You would have to visit each program's webpage to see whether it meets your interests.

However - and this is very important - these rankings are based on the quality of the doctoral programs. There is no ranking of masters Sociology programs I'm aware of. Some schools with little or no presence in the rankings have excellent masters programs. University of North Carolina Charlotte, for example, has very good reputation.

Because I feel like I might have what it takes to get into an even better uni in the US. If I stay in Europe, Copenhagen is my best option since it is tuition free... I wouldn't be able to afford those few European unis that might be better than Copenhagen. In these american unis I mentioned, I will get fully funded and get a diploma from a uni that will be seen with very good eyes in my country.

I already knew those two rankings but thank you anyways!

[surefire]

peguim,

I can only predominately speak to the Canadian schools. There are several universities in Canada with exceptional Sociology departments, including McGill, York, UBC and U of Alberta (I have a friend at Alberta with cultural/political sociology interests and he is quite happy there!) I see from your above post that you have placed some priority on the name recognition (so, U of T makes sense in that regard), but, to what end? It's not worth going to U of T just to go to U of T if you might have your interests better served elsewhere. Where do you want to end up? Look at where alumni from these departments go - academia? government? private sector? - and consider this.

Also, keep in mind that we don't necessarily need the GRE here.

Also Also, you usually need to do an MA before you can do a PhD at most Canadian departments.

All this being said, I'm on my way in to the U of T Sociology PhD program! I was rejected from their MA program two years ago (3.9 GPA from undergrad, scholarships, lots of theory and social justice work - with letters accordingly). U of T is a tough nut to crack...

This time around, for PhD applications, I think that the difference was that I had a MA thesis and some conferences under my belt, and, most important, I had really great prospective fit with the program and a handful of supervisors. I wrote about these prospective supervisors and my capacity to contribute to the program and (this is an informed guess on my part!) one of the supervisors confirmed with the admission committee that they would be willing to supervise me - this is what made the difference!

You mention the potential funding arrangements (and I'm glad that you are giving that due consideration! It's important!) I totally wouldn't take an offer sans funding, ESPECIALLY if I was an international student! My general impression is that the funding is more taken-for-granted at Canadian schools than U.S. ones... the reason for this is that no funding usually equals no offer in the first place. So, many Canadian departments only have 2-ish international spots... thus, while they are sweet funded spots, they are hyper-competitive. You need to show that you are a good investment (as I mentioned above, this might translate to exceptional supervisor fit and a strong capacity to contribute)

You need to craft your narrative as such that the schools that you are applying to look like common-sensical fits with your experience, capacity and goals. Look beyond the departmental websites to the faculty ones, what are their CURRENT research directions/interests? Are they carrying some external funding (like a SSHRC) to carry these out? Does any of this info suggest that there is a place for you and your interests to contribute and grow?

Good luck!

[Ladril]

In these american unis I mentioned, I will get fully funded...

Unfortunately this is a strong assumption. Masters programs do not offer funding to all the students they admit, and when they do, it's often only partial funding.

Moreover, several (if not all) of the US departments you mentioned do not have standalone MA programs. At these universities, students are only allowed to enroll for PhDs, and they earn a Master of Arts degree in the course of their studies. It's usually other universities that do offer standalone masters programs in Sociology.

Standalone MA programs are way more common in English-speaking Canada because, as another poster mentioned, in the Canadian system you're expected to graduate from MA before going to PhD.

The bottom line is: hunting for an MA program should be approached very differently than hunting for a doctoral program, especially in the US system.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Ladril

[RefurbedScientist]

Not sure about the others, but I'm pretty sure Brown and Wisconsin don't offer stand-alone masters degrees in sociology. For example, see the FAQ at Wisconsin's page about that.

As for your interests and other programs, I would take a look at UC Irvine for political and cultural sociology (check out Francesa Polletta and David Snow); Yale for cultural sociology and national identity (try Ron Eyerman and Jeffrey Alexander among others); and maybe Chris Bail at UNC for political and cultural sociology and national identities.

As for the MA versus PhD route, I think that your background seems strong enough to pursue the PhD directly. Of course, an MA will never hurt your chances, but you'll have to make the cost/benefit analysis yourself.

One reason to pursue an MA first would be to determine exactly what discipline is best for you. You have said that you might apply for a sociology/political science degree, but it's somewhat unusual and difficult to apply to separate disciplines at the same time, as much of the application process involves locating yourself in a discipline-specific field of inquiry (e.g. saying you're interested in cultural sociology and art probably won't appeal to a political science department's admissions committee). If you're very much unsure about what discipline is a better home for you, you might try the Masters Program in Social Science (MAPSS) at University of Chicago, which is interdisciplinary and geared toward entering a PhD program and the academic career. If you search these forums, you will find a lot of opinions on MAPSS (but remember, they are opinions).

Otherwise, you might consider taking a year or two to work and figure out on your own what the best academic home might be for you. It is very common for recent college graduates to work for a time, read books and papers that interest them, contact faculty, and do research in preparation for the application process.

[DustSNK]

Apply to a Canadian school. Great departments around here, and as an international student (I am American) I am in a fully funded MA program. For Can (and most of europe I think?) you don't apply directly into a PhD program. You get your MA first THEN apply to PhD. And depending on your case you can get fully funding and a stipend for both your MA and PhD.