Taking out Loans for a Masters in UK/Ireland

[objectivityofcontradiction]

Should I do it?

Here's where I am coming from. I graduated in May 2011 from a public state university in the US. I owe a moderate amount of $$ from various loans that helped me finance my undergrad. Less than 50k. I've been accepted to a university in the UK for an MA in Philosophy and am waiting to hear back from a university in Ireland about acceptance into an MA program there as well. However, I come from a very very modest incomed family, and thus the only way for me to finance my MA year is through various loans. In either the UK or Ireland I'm looking at about 35k for the year: tuition, living, food, transportation, etc.

People might now ask, well, if you can't afford graduate school, and with the job market being what it is for PhDs, why dig yourself deeper in debt? Many reasons, the only one that matters being that there is nothing else I want to do. I want to get a PhD, teach and write. Period. I've already been accepted to a top 15 UK university and thus when it comes time to apply to PhDs. I am fully confident that with my previous pedigree, plus the quality of my work, that i'll be accepted into a decent PhD program with a solid job placement record. Thus, when I finish my PhD I'll be in an ideal position, (ill have a fixed income) to start paying back my loans.

Now, I know you can defer loans while you're a postgraduate. So I figure I can sit on what I owe from undergrad and my masters year (despite it accruing interest) whist a fully-funded PhD. student. Lots of hypotheticals here--but my bottom line question is:

Should I get my masters overseas if that requires me to put myself further in debt. Or should I wait and apply to funded Masters programs in the states this coming fall? My main reason for applying in the UK and Ireland, I should note, is because they have several more departments with people working in my area of interest, namely, continental philosophy. And the few schools I've applied to, and the one I've already been accepted at, have great people in this regard.

Thanks a lot.

[OregonGal]

I would be hesitant to take out that much debt for what isn't a terminal degree (I can't argue against a lot of debt for a Masters in general, because that's what I'm doing). I think you should try crunching the numbers a bit, because it sounds like you won't be able to get the job you want without first getting a PhD. Since this MA isn't a direct feeder into a PhD, is there a possibility of you finishing the MA, not getting a fully funded PhD offer and facing the possibility of either being 70K+ in debt with no job prospects or taking out still more debt to get the degree for the job you want? If you do need to work after your MA, will you be able to afford the loan payments?

Also, I would strongly advise you to not let the interest accrue and capitalize on your current debt. I recently ran the numbers on this myself for my projected debt and interest after a 2 year masters program. Paying down the interest on both the undergrad and the accrued grad loans (equivalent to what it sounds like your debt load will be) before the end of the grace period is a bit pricey--several hundred a semester--but it means that I would pay $100 less a month over the course of a 25-year loan and save me $30,000. With the amount of interest that would accrue and compound over the course of a PhD, if you pay even some of it off every term you could save yourself from crippling loan payments post-PhD.

[victor.s.andrei]

Should I get my masters overseas if that requires me to put myself further in debt.

Unless you are enrolled at a U.S. university and participating in a special exchange program, that debt will likely not be in the form of Federal student loans, with fixed interest rates and very flexible repayment options. It might, however, consist of private student loans, with variable interest rates.

The latter sort of debt is not the pleasant sort to have, since you have little to no recourse against abusive lenders under U.S. law.

I've been accepted to a university in the UK for an MA in Philosophy and am waiting to hear back from a university in Ireland about acceptance into an MA program there as well...I am fully confident that with my previous pedigree, plus the quality of my work, that i'll be accepted into a decent PhD program with a solid job placement record. Thus, when I finish my PhD I'll be in an ideal position, (ill have a fixed income) to start paying back my loans.

The job market for liberal arts and humanities is terrible right now. Be careful.

Or should I wait and apply to funded Masters programs in the states this coming fall? My main reason for applying in the UK and Ireland, I should note, is because they have several more departments with people working in my area of interest, namely, continental philosophy. And the few schools I've applied to, and the one I've already been accepted at, have great people in this regard.

If you can get into a ranked and funded master's program Stateside, that may be a better option from a straight financial point of view. After all, there is nothing stopping you from studying abroad for a semester or two or collaborating with folks at those schools in the UK and Ireland on research and publications in your specialty - continental philosophy.

[Ennue]

People might now ask, well, if you can't afford graduate school, and with the job market being what it is for PhDs, why dig yourself deeper in debt? Many reasons, the only one that matters being that there is nothing else I want to do. I want to get a PhD, teach and write. Period. I've already been accepted to a top 15 UK university and thus when it comes time to apply to PhDs. I am fully confident that with my previous pedigree, plus the quality of my work, that i'll be accepted into a decent PhD program with a solid job placement record. Thus, when I finish my PhD I'll be in an ideal position, (ill have a fixed income) to start paying back my loans.

I agree with victor.s.andrei: the job market is terrible, and though I don't know much about the market for philosophy PhDs I doubt there's a guaranteed job there. Doing what you want to do is awesome, but sometimes it's just not in the cards.

Anyway, I don't know enough about your situation to know whether you should do this. But personally I would be very hesitant to take on any amount of debt, let alone extra debt on top of what you already have. On the other hand, 'a funded Masters program in the states' might be an impossibility as well, so I don't know if you should aim for that. And applying for a Philosophy PhD program without a Master degree is hopeless? (I'm genuinely asking, in some fields people get a PhD straight out of undergrad)

Medium length story short: debt is crippling, even if you end up with a job you love. But being passionate about something is important too. I don't know what you should do, but personally I would avoid getting more debt if at all possible, especially because the extra education doesn't guarantee you a well-paid future job. Good luck!

[eltoro89]

If you intend on working in the UK, you should note that the post-study work visa has been eliminated and it's incredibly hard to get sponsored for a work visa when you not only have to compete with UK citizens, but also the rest of the EU as well. Before awarding sponsorship, employers must show that they have conducted a labor market needs tests which indicates that the job has been advertised for x amount of time and that no number of UK and EU citizens were found suitable before they can sponsor you with the government.

This is one of the fundamental reasons I am not considering the UK for graduate studies. As an American, If my skills aren't going to be wanted there after I graduate simply because I'm not from the EU, then they can't have my money either. I'll settle for cheaper, funded, and immigrant-friendly education in Canada.

I was simply not willing to get fiscally violated by the insane exchange rate between dollars and pound sterling, the high international fees, or the cost of living when my chances of being able to remain the country after studies were limited.

To me, racking up debt in GBP and trying to pay it back in USD if I was lucky enough to be hired back home with a foreign degree did not make financial sense.

Edited June 14, 2012 by eltoro89

[psych77]

What did you end up doing? I'm sort of in the same situation as this.. I applied to Trinity in Dublin.... I want to go very badly, but like you, the debt is a consideration and potential deterrent.