Advice about getting an MA from a UK university

[magpie1127]

I'm hoping to get some perspective from current grad students. I have my BA from an American university, and was just accepted into the MA program at King's College London. This is known to be a pretty great university, but I was wondering if anyone has any insight into how it's viewed in American academia? I'm hoping to use my MA to increase my doctoral prospects. If you have any reference to this university, do you think it's a good idea? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[ekim12]

Not sure if you'll receive many responses from current grad students of KCL on gradcafe, but you may want to check out thestudentroom.

Unless you perform miserably that year for the Masters, I can't see how the degree at KCL will hurt your doctoral prospects! KCL has a strong English department and the profs seem to publish frequently. You can use your year there to cultivate a terrific writing sample and narrow your scholarly interests. And definitely try to achieve masters with distinction (70%+). Because the relationship between British and American profs, esp. in English Lit, is so fluid, I think American profs in whatever Ph.D. programs you apply to probably will recognize so-and-so KCL prof.

I suppose one negative thing is that the MAs are often viewed as cash cows for the UK unis because they charge us overseas students significantly more than EU/UK students... and we're often willing to pay b/c the MA can make us more competitive candidates for a Ph.D. in the US. Hope this helps!

Edited June 26, 2012 by ekim12

[marlowe]

I did the MA at King's, and I definitely think that it improved my prospects for doctoral applications. Feel free to send me any questions that you have via PM.

Edited June 26, 2012 by marlowe

[magpie1127]

Thanks for the advice! Marlowe, I will let you know if I have any questions!

[antecedent]

Hey! I can't give you any advice on how it will be received, because I'm in the same boat as you! I'm heading to the University of Edinburgh for my M.Sc. in English Language. I'm hoping that the work I produce there and the skills I gain (as well as the ranking as a top 10 school in my field) will overshadow the fact that...yeah, it is a cash grab in many respects. I'm also planning on taking as much advantage as possible of all the resources (prof office hours, postgrad conferences, EU conferences, grant writing seminars etc) I have for that year to really refine my interests and my application. Eeek! I'm nervous but I can't wait to get started.

[waparys]

Hi! Hijacking yet another thread, but I'd rather do this than start a new one.

So I'll be getting my MSc in Literature from Edinburgh in November. Yes, it's technically an MA, but the Scottish system refers to initial, four-year degrees as MAs.

So my question is: should I be listing it as an MA or an MSc?

[antecedent]

List it as it will be listed on any official documentation you receive from the university - ie, list it as an MSc - and just explain why it's called that somewhere in your application if you're worried about it. Some schools award AB degrees instead of BA degrees, which also looks funny but it's basically up to the applicant whether or not they think it matters.

The thing you very much want to avoid is the uni you're applying to somehow thinking you are referring to the Edinburgh MA and then thinking you didn't just put an incredible amount of work into an MSc.

[waparys]

Thank you! Looks like you're in Edinburgh right now. Hope you're enjoying it! I certainly loved my short time there.

[thestage]

I don't know how you people afford the ridiculous prices these UK schools charge for their degrees

[waparys]

I don't know how you people afford the ridiculous prices these UK schools charge for their degrees

I'm an EU citizen; I paid home fees. But thanks for your concern...

[antecedent]

I don't know how you people afford the ridiculous prices these UK schools charge for their degrees

Work.

Edited October 1, 2012 by antecedant

[wreckofthehope]

I don't know how you people afford the ridiculous prices these UK schools charge for their degrees

As opposed to those bargainous American M.A.s???

[antecedent]

As opposed to those bargainous American M.A.s???

Right?! Of the MAs I was accepted into, Edinburgh ended up being the least outrageous once I included living fees, length of program, etc. And I was accepted both in state and out of state for American schools!

[marlowe]

I don't know how you people afford the ridiculous prices these UK schools charge for their degrees

For my UK MA, I only paid the equivalent of a single semester (tuition only) at my undergraduate university (for which I was fortunate enough to attend for free) -- it was only a year. Quite a bargain, actually, I think.

[thestage]

For my UK MA, I only paid the equivalent of a single semester (tuition only) at my undergraduate university (for which I was fortunate enough to attend for free) -- it was only a year. Quite a bargain, actually, I think.

How'd you manage to swing that?

[waparys]

How'd you manage to swing that?

It seems like you don't actually know that much about UK higher education costs...I'm not sure about marlowe, but a semester at my undergraduate university cost $20-$25k. A whole year of a master's in the UK costs about GBP 5k for EU students and about GBP12-15k for non-EU students. I'm guessing this is how she managed to "swing it."

[thestage]

Everyone seems pretty angry.

I looked at a couple places last year. Then I ran into statements like "12,000 GBP a semester" and "see these pretty pictures? you will never be here, kill yourself"

[antecedent]

Everyone seems pretty angry.

I looked at a couple places last year. Then I ran into statements like "12,000 GBP a semester" and "see these pretty pictures? you will never be here, kill yourself"

It's because you're getting your facts wrong. The exchange rate is about 1.6 at the moment, and even Oxbridge/any of the other ancient universities don't charge much more than 15,000 BPS a year, which still comes out to under 30k a year. Last I checked, it was hard to go to school out of state in the US for less than 30k a year. So, yes it is expensive, but not any more expensive than getting an unfunded masters degree anywhere else in the world.

And yeah, it's pretty fucking beautiful here.

[antecedent]

It's because you're getting your facts wrong. The exchange rate is about 1.6 at the moment, and even Oxbridge/any of the other ancient universities don't charge much more than 15,000 BPS a year, which still comes out to under 30k a year. Last I checked, it was hard to go to school out of state in the US for less than 30k a year. So, yes it is expensive, but not any more expensive than getting an unfunded masters degree anywhere else in the world.

And yeah, it's pretty fucking beautiful here.

[edited to add]: Also, Marlowe is very smart, very hard working, and very lucky, just like everyone else in academia. That's how he swung it.

Edited October 5, 2012 by antecedant

[wreckofthehope]

Everyone seems pretty angry.

I looked at a couple places last year. Then I ran into statements like "12,000 GBP a semester" and "see these pretty pictures? you will never be here, kill yourself"

a) the £12,000 is for a year's tuition (for international students)

b ) an MA is only a year long (usually)

£12,000 = $20,000 approximately

If you're attending a US state school as an out of state student, or a private school, for your MA you'll pay more than that per year for tuition... you'll also pay it twice, and then have an extra year's worth of living expenses on top of that.

If you're attending an in-state state school for your MA, your tuition will probably be less per year, but you'll pay it twice and you'll pay two years of living expenses... so it will almost certainly work out more expensive than a UK MA too.

There is funding/work etc available more readily in the US, but it's available in the UK too - and at least as an international student you are free to work off campus for a certain number of hours a week. Even if you take funding into consideration a UK MA will likely cost you about the same, if not less, as doing one in-state at a state school in the US.

People are probably coming across as angry because you're coming across as ill-informed and judgemental.

Edited October 5, 2012 by wreckofthehope

[antecedent]

Aaaah! sorry for the double post. But what wreckofthehope said.

[Dark Matter]

Let me just say, as someone in the business, that paying money for an MA in English is not something to do lightly, no matter where it is from, and is very often a significant mistake. I would also add that any for profit MA program--that is, any MA program that charges tuition and therefore creates revenue for the rest of the department/university-- in a discipline with chronic oversupply/under-demand problems is really very dubious ethically. All of you should know this.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Dark Matter

[waparys]

I'm not sure I agree that it's a "significant mistake." I'm now in the position of applying to US PhDs and realizing my MA won't mean much to them and wasn't entirely necessary. However, I do believe I'm in a great position to be SURE about graduate study. I did it for a short time and found it to be agreeable to my interests. I see the GBP 5k that I paid as an investment (it's significantly less than pouring 7 years of your life into something that turns out not to be right for you).

Also, unfunded MAs are often the only programs people are admitted to. They end up taking on these roles (and the associated debts) to simply get their foot in the door of graduate academia. You can't begrudge them that.

[Dark Matter]

I didn't say that it is always a significant mistake, just that it is often is. I also added that "for profit" MA programs--even or especially those at places like the University of Chicago or NYU--are on very thin ice ethically, as they generate money for the rest of the department by getting some students to take on debt. My point for anyone reading this board is that choosing to pay money, especially if it is through taking out a loan, to get an MA is something to think twice about before doing. I'm glad you feel good about your choice waparys, but you're generalizing from your one experience and are still in the midst of it all. I've seen hundreds of students go through the process, for better and often worse. An MA can help to get into a PhD program, but just as often it makes no difference.

A PhD in the humanities is not like a professional degree with guaranteed employment (like, say, an MBA or MD). The chance that the MA will mean debt with no means of remuneration are very high. The best way of figuring out if a PhD is right for you is to begin one. No one holds a gun to your head and makes you stay. But there is no reason why one year at an MA program will give you a better sense of what it is like to do a PhD than one year in a PhD program. There's no reason and it is significantly more expensive.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Dark Matter

[hashslinger]

I didn't say that it is always a significant mistake, just that it is often is. I also added that "for profit" MA programs--even or especially those at places like the University of Chicago or NYU--are on very thin ice ethically, as they generate money for the rest of the department by getting some students to take on debt. My point for anyone reading this board is that choosing to pay money, especially if it is through taking out a loan, to get an MA is something to think twice about before doing. I'm glad you feel good about your choice waparys, but you're generalizing from your one experience and are still in the midst of it all. I've seen hundreds of students go through the process, for better and often worse. An MA can help to get into a PhD program, but just as often it makes no difference.

A PhD in the humanities is not like a professional degree with guaranteed employment (like, say, an MBA or MD). The chance that the MA will mean debt with no means of remuneration are very high. The best way of figuring out if a PhD is right for you is to begin one. No one holds a gun to your head and makes you stay. But there is no reason why one year at an MA program will give you a better sense of what it is like to do a PhD than one year in a PhD program. There's no reason and it is significantly more expensive.

I think this is very good and honest advice. And let me add that there ARE plenty of funded MA programs out there. It's not as though the only choices are to pay top dollar for an MA, swing admission to a PhD program, or forgo graduate school altogether. There are lots of schools that will admit you to a terminal MA program and provide you with a full tuition waiver and stipend. For this reason alone, I can't understand justifying taking on $30 or $60 thousand in debt just to do an MA at a prestigious university.

I know that paying for an MA at a top university has worked out for some people. I know someone who, in her words, "blew tons of money" getting a degree from Oxford, and later ended up entertaining multiple offers from Ivy PhD programs. But acceptance to a top PhD program STILL doesn't necessarily translate into guaranteed job offers at the end of your program--and truth be told, the starting salary for most assistant professors is only around $50k (if that), not exactly the windfall you'll need to square things with your creditors. And most people in this market are spending at least a year--if not two or three--languishing on the job market without the protection of school and with very little income. In that sense, borrowing really heavily means taking quite a risk.

Edited October 8, 2012 by hashslinger