Saying No to Grad School - Advice?

[admissionsgeek]

No longer relevant.

[earlyamerican]

So, let me get this straight.

You just got into Chicago with full funding and half the department calling you with personal congratulations. And now you're not sure if you should do grad school at all.

Oh, darling, I will happily be your kick in the pants. You're out of your mind.

That being said, I think what I read on these fora indicates that a period of self-doubt is totally normal after an acceptance. If you really haven't been accepted anywhere else and aren't waiting for any more notifications (!!! srsly? Where else did you apply? The Sorbonne?), having some mixed gut reactions is a mini-storm and you should wait it out before making any decisions.

However, if you're really considering this law business as well as taking family considerations into account, it makes me wonder if a history PhD is right for you. Everyone has their individual stuff to consider (sick parent, new baby, dysfunctional sibling's new baby, whatever), but I'll just remind you that an academic life is notoriously nomadic. You'll be in residence doing coursework and initial research for a few years, but if you're doing Latin American stuff, you'll probably need to spend significant time - perhaps most or all of a year, more than once - wherever your archives are. And that's before you even go on the job market. I mean, I hate-hate-hate the idea of uprooting and moving hundreds or thousands of miles away, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make if it means having a career that doesn't make me want to stab my eyeballs out.

So I'm willing to bet you're just in the cold feet mindstorm before making a huge commitment. I doubt Chicago would be courting you if you hadn't fully convinced them you could be a successful academic. The real question here is whether you are ready to throw all your eggs in an academic basket, or if you need to work for a while in another industry to see if that fits you better.

Under any circumstances, if this is what you want to do, there is no such thing (as far as I know) as a "defer" option. So take that off the table. You can either accept Chicago, and figure out an exit strategy later if necessary (no ethical problems with that), or you can try other things and come back to the application process. But if you do that, do so knowing that this acceptance basically never happened. You do not get a formality of a review. You will be evaluated against everyone else who applies that year just like this year.

Hope that helps.

[misterpat]

Hey folks,

So I applied to Latin American Grad programs and was admitted to one school - Chicago, by all means a top school. And was not accepted elsewhere. Chicago for various reasons - strong relationships, family on the east coast - is not an ideal place for me even if the department is strong and good in what I want to study.

I am looking for some advice. What do you think about saying no and reapplying? Any advice regarding doing the dirty trick of grad school and staying for the masters, but transferring out afterword? Anyone know relative success in doing so? I am more concerned with the ethics. Another thought of mine was to seek out a law degree, particularly one on immigration law, or one that offers some training to do binational law (UDetroit has a program and others are forming). So similar thoughts, what do people think about stepping out and applying normally to law programs, and similarly perhaps staying at UChi and grabbing the masters, but heading off for other work.

In the end I think I am going to come to the realization that I just got into a great program and it is calling, but while I ponder what to do - I want to know what options are out there, or maybe someone to give me a good kick in the pants.

Well, if you do go for the "bailout masters," UChicago might be ideal since I belive they get your MA stuff out of the way in the first year.

Secondly, if you are thinking of not going to UChicago for family/relationships on the east coast, then UDetroit (is that law school even top 100? Or 200?) sounds like the worst idea I've ever heard. Not to be a dick, just trying to talk some sense into you.

I would say go to UChi with an open mind, and leave with the MA if you hate it. But Chicago is a great city (objectively better than Detroit, I might add, since you are thinking of going there) and I think that you'll adjust.

[feisty]

As someone who has spent great lengths of time in Chicago, Detroit, and the east coast, I don't see how being in Detroit would make it easier to stay close to family on the east coast. I mean I love Detroit like a brother but nothing about this seems to make sense.

But what do I know.

[anese]

Honestly, I don't think you were quite prepared for what the demands of graduate school or the demands of a professor would be. If you have obligations on the East coast, i wonder why you applied to U-Chicago at all. This is a top history department, and the school has a reputation for being cutthroat. In my current program we have a stellar doctoral student who left U-Chi with the masters because it was so intense. Also had a former professor who left and went to Harvard because it was so intense.

If you aren't prepared for this kind of environment and are considering law school just to stay close to your family, I would reconsider what you really want for yourself and your career.

[feisty]

I don't think we can say whether the poster is prepared or not based on one post on a graduate school message board.

I would say step back and think about it.

But really don't go to the Unviersity of Detroit.

[synthla]

Have you really researched law school, or is this just some basically unformed idea? I've said it many times already, and there are several other posters who have said essentially the same thing, but law school and a history graduate program couldn't be further apart in just about every category. If you're this unsure about graduate study in history, I'd say do everyone a favor and turn down Chicago so that someone who is obsessed with the subject can have the opportunity to pursue their dream. Not only are you helping out your fellow applicant but you're probably saving yourself from wasting a year or two of graduate study to which you're only half-committed; everything I've learned so far indicates you have to be 100% focused on graduate study or you're not going to succeed with it.

And (I'm having a hard time believing that I'm being this blunt, because I typically try to be more cordial), but the fact that you would even mention UDetroit law and UChicago history in the same post leads me to seriously question, even more so, your level of seriousness. I have a law degree, and I wasn't even aware of UDetroit's existence, much less their law school. I can't overstress the importance of a big-name law school if you want to have a real chance at success on the job market - it doesn't matter what kind of catchy hip new program they have. Legal employers are EXTREMELY focused on academic pedigree.

Finally, you can't let geographic considerations have this big an impact (again, this goes to the seriousness question); that's life - I moved away from my family nearly a decade ago, first one coast and then another, and I miss them daily, but that's how things go in the modern world.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I know there are dozens of applicants, some of them on this board, who would love your spot and accept it without hesitation, so your post is very aggravating from that perspective.

[technocat]

Ok, just to balance out this very unbalanced advice thread, wanting to be near your family is not a ridiculous or petty consideration. Academia is not a religious order that requires you to renounce all earthly goods and obligations, and willingness to sacrifice your home and family for the single-minded pursuit of grad school prestige does not necessarily reflect your seriousness or potential as a scholar. Chicago is a great school (and it's not any more cut-throat than anywhere else), and you should go if you want. Even if you want to apply to law school next autumn, you'll have to wait until 2010 to start, so unless you have a job lined up through then, you might consider going to Chicago and applying somewhere else while you're there if it turns out badly. (Moreover, if you're interested in Latin American immigration issues, the city of Chicago has a large Latin American immigrant population and a lot of organizations involved in immigration policy.) But if you have obligations to your family or just want to stay near them, that's a totally legitimate reason not to go, and it has nothing to do with whether you're prepared for the demands of grad school.

[admissionsgeek]

Thanks to those of you who have spent time on helping out.

[synthla]

Mostly to synthla and his/her awful post that wreaks of anger and frustration. Yes I've researched law school. Who the hell are you? Can't someone have multiple passions? Welcome to reading 101 - I mentioned UDetroit as an exemplar of an overall push toward Latin America dual degree options. Presently, it is the only school that has the program, it is in its first year - and yet if you read a half-dozen law schools are looking into increasing exchanges with Latin America and other civil law countries, I could see myself pursuing those. I think you can be a public intellectual without being a pure form PhD. As I read the news everyday about Mexico and the violence, I am compelled to be active rather than academic in the political turmoil - and that is why something along the form of a Lic. in Derecho, or some other degree that has equal currency in these political conversations (which ironically directly mirror what I have studied historically) merits at least a serious conversation. Yes it is just a thought, an impluse, but I am sure there are others out there that understand this duality between academia and policy world - and how perhaps other degrees might mete out similar results. Don't be sorry because you want to use the anonymity of this posting culture to be beyond abrasive and downright nasty. I am sorry that you lack the perspective to understand that this is one hell of a tough decision for me.

Well your anger/frustration antenna must be malfunctioning today; my life is in a pretty great place. I attended one of the top law schools in the nation, have had the pleasure of practicing for several years, learned a lot, and now I'm getting ready to pursue a Ph.D full time and have already been admitted to my top choice. I suppose I'm just speaking from a position of having had a lot of time to figure all of this out - and I don't know how old you are, but your post makes your thought process seem very dilletante-ish and if I was one of those other people who was hoping against hope to get into Chicago, e.g., and saw your post, then I think I would be frustrated; so perhaps I'm just chanelling. Obviously I know what it's like to have multiple passions; I was just sure of what I was doing at each step of the way so as to avoid wasting my and others time. At the end of the day, I hope you're able to find a place that's satisfying for you in all respects.

[socialpsych]

OP, you need to figure out what's important to you, and none of us can tell you that.

All I have to say is that if you think there is a chance you will ever be in academia, be very careful whom you talk to about this, because it could do really bad things for your reputation (e.g. when people react as some people on this thread have) and academia is a very small world.

I also agree with earlyamerican's advice to avoid doing anything rash. You have over 7 weeks before April 15th. Think it over. Talk it over with the people who matter to you. Don't close any doors before you need to. What's for sure is that you have been given an opportunity many would really love to have, and if you choose to turn it down, you may want to be extremely clear on your reasons so that you don't end up regretting it later.

[IronDuke]

Here's the thing: turning down a higher ranked grad program for a lower ranked school that's a better fit isn't a problem, and I might do that myself. But what you are doing is of a totally different order. When I applied to schools I expected that any one in which I would be accepted would be an option. It's totally unreasonable to apply if you have no intention of going someplace. In your case, if you've only been accepted to one (and what a great one it is!) it's completely baffling to me why you would even question yourself at this point. This indicates that you really weren't serious about your application process so it pretty much doesn't matter what you do -- if you're this uncertain about Chicago grad school then maybe academia isn't for you. Move along and make someone on the waitlist very, very happy.

[StrangeLight]

you know, it's possible that the circumstances that has made this person not want to leave the east coast materialized after applications were submitted. as a group of people who study human nature, we seem to have very little compassion for human nature in action.

you can always move back to the east coast once you're done your coursework and simply communicate with advisers via phone or email. it's a fairly common practice. fly back for your field exams, maybe fly in once a semester to have in-person meetings with advisers, and the rest is done long distance. your commitment to the city of chicago would be 3 years max.

if you really didn't get in anywhere else, are you sure you want to sacrifice your career goals for a relationship that couldn't endure 2-3 years apart? i know i'm a debbie downer, but think about it... could you imagine turning down chicago, and then having this committed relationship end? like others have said, detroit doesn't really seem any closer to the east coast, and you can probably get cheaper flights chicago-NY than detroit-NY, so i don't really see how dropping chicago for a law degree in detroit keeps you closer to your loved ones. just because the PhD takes 5-7 years doesn't mean you have to live there for 5-7 years. depending on chicago's program, you could be back in the new york area within 2 years.

i would caution not to write off the school completely.

[admissionsgeek]

no longer relevant.

[general_jr]

OP, I wouldn't take anything off the board just yet - even talking to a faculty adviser. If you have someone whom you trust and feel comfortable discussing this with, I would recommend getting their perspective. Only, though, if you feel comfortable with them.

As for actual recommendations: First, I would go have a glass of wine and celebrate that you have the choice. Next, I'd hope you'll visit Chicago before deciding - even bring your SO. Chicago is a great place and worth at least looking at (airfare will definitely be cheeper than a new round of apps...). You and your SO have to make the final call, but it might be easier if you make Chicago a reality first.

One word of caution about Chicago: You seem pretty interested in practical issues, Chicago does not have a stellar track-record of catering to those (though I have no clue what the South American History faculty is like). If this is a concern for you, look into how much you could draw on the Law School or Public Policy School's resources; they are much more praxis-oriented.

Just take your time and talk to everyone you trust about it. It is a great department, though, and a great city... And if it's any several friends of mind did the long-distance gig from Chicago and it has worked out for all of them so far, so it can be done.

Good luck!

[IronDuke]

And a final comment on this "not ready for academia" opinion out there. I am not going to say I have ever had the realization that I am meant to be an academic, nor is it eh that sounds like a fine thing to try. It is something that seriously could be what I do for the rest of my life. Every professor I have spoken with do not make academia to be zero sum game without any middle ground. Equally so - and perhaps proven by this board - they have said to be absolutely sure of what you are doing. Applying is one process, accepting and attending are quite different - socialpscyh, this dissonance has a name, no? Makes it real. So saying someone is not ready for academia, while rhetorically something that sounds interesting, is like saying there is such a standard as "preparedness for academia," when it is a completely subjective and individual decision. Yes, we all have interests here and certainly the idea that a spot is being taken up is something we may all fear (I have worreid about this too, should I not go because I am taking someone's spot?), but to say that you know how prepared I am or how prepared I "sound" is a ridiculous and baseless assertion more about sounding intelligent than being helpful. Why waste time posting on here if you just want to be unsupportive? If you cannot see that there is a reasonable situation here of hesitation and anxiety then posting negatively or thinking somehow I am ungrateful is just approaching the situation without any degree of respect for me as the poster. But welcome to the real world, not everyone posts to be supportive.

OK a couple of responses to what I believe are a set of comments directed at me.

1) I clearly do not intend to be either "supportive" or "unsupportive" in responding to your post. I gave my 100% honest opinion about your situation...which is frankly what you would want to hear on an Internet forum. Your parents and friends have a duty to tell you nice things along with the bad. Anonymous people do not have such a social obligation, so you might hear some harsh or unpleasant things.

2) As far as a standard for "preparedness," it is subjective and probably not a very useful way to look at it. But of course I'm entitled to my opinion based on inference from your post. Since (again) I don't know you personally or your life history, this is all I have to go on. Furthermore, I don't like saying that there is such a standard but it's true. Academia, I'm realizing myself as I go through this process, is a very narrow, restrictive, competitive, and often unsatisfying career path. The very VERY small number of people who are successful in it show an intense and often single-minded dedication to it (for better or worse). The only thing I questioned in your post was why you would even apply to Chicago if you knew you wouldn't want to move out of your area for personal reasons. It's good to consider all possibilities beforehand in order to avoid being surprised.

3) I will re-phrase the last part of my post so as to not come across so mean. I believe you should do precisely what you want and what makes you happy. You don't have to go to Chicago to be successful in life. You can be a lawyer, journalist, garbage man, travel agent, zookeeper, artist, sports player, taxi driver, whatever. Being a professor isn't above or below these things. BUT you have to know for sure (this is point #2 above). In my opinion, turning down a good offer is something you are likely to regret because it doesn't sound like you have an equally good plan instead. If you find something you love more and you are completely sure that it will make you happier, then go do it (and yes, a side effect of that will be that someone on the waitlist will also be happier -- just stating a fact!). Just remember that "exploring" and dreaming is risky, especially in a time of recession and ever-closing prospects for everyone of working age in the US.

Hope this clarifies my thoughts a bit, and good luck.

[MDLee]

So, let me get this straight.

You just got into Chicago with full funding and half the department calling you with personal congratulations. And now you're not sure if you should do grad school at all.

Oh, darling, I will happily be your kick in the pants. You're out of your mind.

LoL

I have two thoughts on this (and since my two cents are about worthless in this economy, I'd take them with a grain of salt):

(1) I can understand not necessarily being sure if you want to attend a certain school. I always have said that I rejected Wisconsin wwaaaayyy before they rejected me. I am from the desert, I'm a big fan of oceans, my entire family is south of the Mason-Dixon or West of the Rockies and I was not looking forward to being land-locked, cold, and alone.

That being said...

(2) I have also always said that if they had been the only school that accepted me and the funding was there, I would've made it work. A fully funded PhD is a fully funded PhD. There are planes, trains, and automobiles to get you home whenever you're interested. Chicago is even perhaps better than Wisconsin for having a lot to do, lots of people, and lots and lots of travel options out as needs be. You're directly connected to the East Coast through AmTrak!

In the end you have to realize (not to be blunt, just giving the hard facts) that you have only a 40% chance of finishing the degree, and then only a 20% chance of getting a job in academia. Your odds of getting a job near your family are even slimmer. If this is the life you're planning to lead, then you need to be prepared for it now.

[jflan17]

Your odds of getting a job near your family are even slimmer. If this is the life you're planning to lead, then you need to be prepared for it now.

This is really the key. You need to decide which is more important to you - staying close to your family, friends, home, etc. or pursuing a career in academia. I know a lot of really great professors, as brilliant and talented as any others, that are unemployed, adjuncts for life, or in non-teaching positions because they are unable to move or just don't want to. You really need to be flexible about location in academia.

[StrangeLight]

this is why i just have pets. they don't care where they're living as long as you rub their bellies and give em something to eat. refreshingly uncomplicated.

one of my professors, the head of my department, has been at schools all over canada and the US. if he loves a town, his wife hates it (newfoundland). if she loves it, he hates it (san diego), and on and on. he thinks they've finally found a compromise, after decades of teaching, where they both like the city they're in.

this job certainly takes you away from your extended family, and it can put a tremendous amount of stress on your relationship with your SO. that's part of the deal that lets you get paid to research and write about anything you want to.