State Universities for MA --> Private Universities for PhD?

[1Q84]

I know I'm on a posting spree here. Apologies!

I'm in that mode right now (learning so much about the American system) that everyday is like a rollercoaster... one day I find out good news and am overjoyed, the next second I'll think of something else that dashes my hopes. Sigh.

Anyway, so I'm applying to a bunch of state universities (California) for my Masters, simply because my undergraduate work wasn't the best and there's no way I can make straight into PhD programs. I plan on working my butt off during the Masters, acing everything, developing amazing relationships with my supervising professors, and applying to better schools for the doctorate.

Now I'm having this panic attack because while chances are looking pretty good that I'll be accepted to the CSU schools, I'm looking ahead and I've read that lots of UC schools won't even accept MA credits from state schools or they won't accept the students altogether. Is this right? I know that I should be doing my own individual research for this but I have no idea how to go about it other than emailing the graduate advisors for the schools to which I'm looking for the PhD (and I have emailed them, awaiting reply).

In the meantime, does anyone have specific experience with this, going from a state school in their MA to a private university for their PhD?

Thank you all for calming my anxiety in advance

[ProfLorax]

Hi ponponpon! I'm a proud product of the CSU system. I earned my MA from SFSU in 2010 (and my BA from Cal Poly).

I am currently in the Phd application phase (I took some time off to teach), so I don't have any personal experience with being accepted into a PhD program. However, all of my friends who applied to PhD programs from SFSU were accepted into schools like University of Arizona, Brandeis, USC, and Northwestern-- most, if not all, with full-funding. Those of us who know we would be applying to PhD programs worked our little tushies off: presenting at conferences, writing and re-writing seminar papers (potential writing samples!), gaining teaching experience, and making connections with faculty. It's doable, and you're saving lots of money by going to a state school for your MA, rather than a private university!

Also, I see that you are applying to CSULA. I attended my first ever conference there; they host an annual grad student conference called Significations for CSU grad students. It was a great experience, and I could tell that they had a strong program with a cohesive cohort. Good luck with applications!

Edited July 15, 2012 by proflorax

[Stately Plump]

Most PhD programs will only accept a limited number of credits from an MA completed elsewhere. Plenty of students are accepted into PhD programs after completing MA degrees, but many will probably be repeating at least some of their courses. One exception, as an example, is the CUNY system. CUNY Grad Center will accept a good amount of (but still not all) credits earned at a CUNY school, such as Hunter or City College.

[1Q84]

Hi ponponpon! I'm a proud product of the CSU system. I earned my MA from SFSU in 2010 (and my BA from Cal Poly).

I am currently in the Phd application phase (I took some time off to teach), so I don't have any personal experience with being accepted into a PhD program. However, all of my friends who applied to PhD programs from SFSU were accepted into schools like University of Arizona, Brandeis, USC, and Northwestern-- most, if not all, with full-funding. Those of us who know we would be applying to PhD programs worked our little tushies off: presenting at conferences, writing and re-writing seminar papers (potential writing samples!), gaining teaching experience, and making connections with faculty. It's doable, and you're saving lots of money by going to a state school for your MA, rather than a private university!

Also, I see that you are applying to CSULA. I attended my first ever conference there; they host an annual grad student conference called Significations for CSU grad students. It was a great experience, and I could tell that they had a strong program with a cohesive cohort. Good luck with applications!

Amazing to hear! I was going to apply to SFSU too but it's too far for me...

So what I'm taking from that is that if I go to a state university I just have to work twice as hard as the private university folk? I guess that's good and bad news! I was hoping I could still claw my way up to a UC Berkeley after the MA but I figure that's probably a little out of range eh?

It's so strange though... CSULA is so terribly rated (in fact, in most ranking sites it's not rated at all). I hate to rely solely on numbers but I feel like if it's that bad, attending might be something of a stigma.

Most PhD programs will only accept a limited number of credits from an MA completed elsewhere. Plenty of students are accepted into PhD programs after completing MA degrees, but many will probably be repeating at least some of their courses. One exception, as an example, is the CUNY system. CUNY Grad Center will accept a good amount of (but still not all) credits earned at a CUNY school, such as Hunter or City College.

I don't mind repeating courses. As long as they'll take me! I'm thinking the highest tier schools (like UC Berkeley and UCLA) won't accept MA students from state universities?

[ProfLorax]

Hmmm... perhaps I am being unclear. I think that all students with MAs (well, all students, period) have to work hard to get accepted into PhD programs. I imagine--this is all conjecture-- that ad-comms expect students with MAs to have experience presenting at conferences and writing seminar papers because those opportunities are available to us. I think this is true of students from all MA programs, not just state universities.

Are you interested in UC Berkeley and UCLA because they fit your interests? If you can demonstrate that you are a strong candidate, that you fit well into their programs, and that you can write and analyze like a pro, then you will be in the running. To answer your question about whether the highest tier schools accept MA students from state schools, look at the the schools that I listed above. They are all highly ranked PhD programs, especially in the subfields that my friends are studying (digital humanities, rhet/comp, performance studies, etc). No one in my program went to UCB or UCLA, but that's only because no one applied to those schools because they didn't fit their interests. As you'll read on this forum, fit is everything! You can always contact the English departments at the schools to which are you applying and ask them about what schools their graduates attend for PhD programs.

I hope that you don't see going to a CSU as a handicap. I am so happy that I chose a CSU over the private schools that accepted me; I never had to compete with PhD students for guidance and my student debt is minimal because of in-state tuition. I was surrounded by brilliant faculty that were frequently publishing and presenting, and students who were thoughtful, intellectual, and engaging. When I presented at MLA a few years ago, I never noticed a stigma based on my school affiliation; all I noticed was genuine interest in the paper I was presenting. I imagine if this attitude is present at MLA, it is present at most schools in our field.

Edited July 15, 2012 by proflorax

[1Q84]

Oh absolutely... working super hard is on my agenda no matter where I go, especially after my slippage in undergrad.

UC Berkeley and UCLA do apparently have the best graduate program in Renaissance Lit so, yes it's a departmental fit thing, not a status thing... hope it didn't come off that way!

It's kinda different for me, I guess, as I'll be paying nonresident tuition no matter what. I'm really banking on some scholarships/awards! Here's hoping.

[Stately Plump]

Having an MA from a state school shouldn't cripple your chances at Berkeley or UCLA. They aren't going to think, "Oh, she went to a state school, she's obviously not good enough for us."

If they think you will be a benefit to their program, you will be accepted. I went to a completely unknown liberal arts college with less prestige than a one-room schoolhouse and I was accepted to several programs.

[ProfLorax]

Oh boo, ponponpon! Out of state tuition is no fun! I wish you the best in getting some funding. That is one thing the CSUs lack: $.

Also, make sure you apply for the CSU Pre-Doctoral Program. It's a highly competitive program that provides extra funds and guidance for CSU students who want to pursue a PhD: http://www.calstate.edu/PreDoc/.

[Two Espressos]

I went to a completely unknown liberal arts college with less prestige than a one-room schoolhouse and I was accepted to several programs.

Christ, this is a priceless characterization! You had me laughing, Stately Plump!

Seriously though, I think I probably have everyone on here beat when it comes to the lowliness of my undergraduate institution.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Two Espressos

[I'm a fact.]

Is applying to Berkeley and UCLA this time around totally out of the question? It may be a shot in the dark, esp. being an international student, but one never knows. I suppose you could at least establish CA residency while completing the MA. Do you think your writing sample and SOP are strong enough to apply to MA/PhD programs this fall? Is your converted GPA really that bad or are you just being hard on yourself? Does it meet/exceed the minimum requirement? Then, there’s the GRE. My point: if the programs are a good fit, and you think you can get your shit together by the deadlines, why not roll the dice on Berkeley and UCLA this application round?

To answer your original question, no one should feel their options are limited because of their undergrad or MA institution. Just apply to the programs you perceive to be a good fit be it Harvard, Yale, Cornell, etc. etc. I understand if you just don’t feel ready though.

Also, I’m confused by your reference to private institutions, since both UCLA and Berkeley (all UCs for that matter) are public. Perhaps you have some private schools on your list that I overlooked.

[1Q84]

Having an MA from a state school shouldn't cripple your chances at Berkeley or UCLA. They aren't going to think, "Oh, she went to a state school, she's obviously not good enough for us."

If they think you will be a benefit to their program, you will be accepted. I went to a completely unknown liberal arts college with less prestige than a one-room schoolhouse and I was accepted to several programs.

Okay this was what I was hoping to hear! Phew! I'm a he by the way but she is fine too haha

Really? Less prestige than University of Toronto? I mean it's oft cited as the best university in Canada (even then Queens and McGill sometimes take the cake) but I have a feeling outside of Canada there's a lot of head-scratching.

Also, make sure you apply for the CSU Pre-Doctoral Program. It's a highly competitive program that provides extra funds and guidance for CSU students who want to pursue a PhD: http://www.calstate.edu/PreDoc/.

Oh. This is really good information... again I plead ignorance. Thank you so much for pointing that out to me! Is this contingent on attaining the PhD in the calstate system, though?

ETA: Oh boo it's for US residents only

Is applying to Berkeley and UCLA this time around totally out of the question? It may be a shot in the dark, esp. being an international student, but one never knows. I suppose you could at least establish CA residency while completing the MA. Do you think your writing sample and SOP are strong enough to apply to MA/PhD programs this fall? Is your converted GPA really that bad or are you just being hard on yourself? Does it meet/exceed the minimum requirement? Then, there’s the GRE. My point: if the programs are a good fit, and you think you can get your shit together by the deadlines, why not roll the dice on Berkeley and UCLA this application round?

To answer your original question, no one should feel their options are limited because of their undergrad or MA institution. Just apply to the programs you perceive to be a good fit be it Harvard, Yale, Cornell, etc. etc. I understand if you just don’t feel ready though.

Also, I’m confused by your reference to private institutions, since both UCLA and Berkeley (all UCs for that matter) are public. Perhaps you have some private schools on your list that I overlooked.

I think it's pretty out of the question. My best writing samples are two 7 page critical papers I wrote on Faerie Queene. I think those two schools require 10-15 page samples from what I recall. I have been told by some professors to edit, correct and expand them, however, so I guess that's fixable.

Yes, my converted GPA (although not much to convert, UT is also on the 4.0 GPA scale) is about 3.3 in my English major. It's a bit higher in my Latin major. I believe the minimum for those upper tier schools are 3.7 - 3.8.

Worst part of all is my references aren't that great. I'm one of those unfortunate many that didn't network or schmooze very well with their undergrad professors so while I did well in their courses, I don't know them all that well.

Thank you for that vote of confidence though! I really wish I could just apply to UCLA and Berkeley now... might save me some time!

Edited July 16, 2012 by ponponpon

[NowMoreSerious]

Hi ponponpon! I'm a proud product of the CSU system. I earned my MA from SFSU in 2010 (and my BA from Cal Poly).

I am currently in the Phd application phase (I took some time off to teach), so I don't have any personal experience with being accepted into a PhD program. However, all of my friends who applied to PhD programs from SFSU were accepted into schools like University of Arizona, Brandeis, USC, and Northwestern-- most, if not all, with full-funding. Those of us who know we would be applying to PhD programs worked our little tushies off: presenting at conferences, writing and re-writing seminar papers (potential writing samples!), gaining teaching experience, and making connections with faculty. It's doable, and you're saving lots of money by going to a state school for your MA, rather than a private university!

Also, I see that you are applying to CSULA. I attended my first ever conference there; they host an annual grad student conference called Significations for CSU grad students. It was a great experience, and I could tell that they had a strong program with a cohesive cohort. Good luck with applications!

Pro, we work very hard on Significations every year so I'm flattered and happy you felt that way about the conference.

PonPonPon, if you have any questions about CSULA please let me know. I'm finishing up my MA coursework and will be applying to PhD programs this season.

Edited July 20, 2012 by ImWantHazPhD

[1Q84]

Thank you! You're amazing! PM'd