Dropping out. Need advice.

[dahlia16]

Hi All,

I haven’t been on this site since last year during the exciting few months of grad school interviews and acceptances. Needless to say, a lot has changed since then.

I am currently enrolled in a psychology Ph.D. program, one class short of a masters degree. I am 100% sure that I do not want to get my Ph.D. and I do not want to go into a research career.

I definitely want to drop out of my program after I take my last class for my masters. I don’t know how to go about telling my advisor, or when I should do this. You see, I am in a unique situation in that I am the only graduate student in the lab, there is no lab tech, and no post-doc. We have a few undergrads to help run experiments, but I am in a very new lab and my job consists of a lot of software writing and engineering as a means to build the lab up. My advisor and I have a great relationship, and he has no idea I want to drop out. I feel so incredibly guilty because I feel like it would affect his career too, especially because he has already invested so much in me. He is sending me to work in a different lab for the fall to bring back a technique to our lab, and I am afraid to tell him before I go, because I actually want to learn the technique as a CV builder. I am sure that he would see me dropping out as weak and simply that I can’t live this lifestyle, rather than I just don’t want to. After I drop out, I would be more than willing to stay working in the lab for 3 or 4 months wrapping up projects and training other people.

I need advice. How do I tell him I want to drop out, which is basically saying he will have no one invested in the lab? When do I tell him?

One last piece of information. I want to go back to school and take 5 more undergraduate classes in order to apply to vet school, which I have learned is my true passion when research has never been. If I stay in the program, I can take undergraduate classes for free. Should I stay until I complete these courses?

Thanks everyone who took the time to read this.

- Anna

[wildviolet]

I feel so incredibly guilty because I feel like it would affect his career too, especially because he has already invested so much in me.

How do I tell him I want to drop out, which is basically saying he will have no one invested in the lab? When do I tell him?

One last piece of information. I want to go back to school and take 5 more undergraduate classes in order to apply to vet school, which I have learned is my true passion when research has never been. If I stay in the program, I can take undergraduate classes for free. Should I stay until I complete these courses?

Yes, he has invested time in developing your skills but feeling guilty won't help. Many people drop out before completing their doctorate (isn't the stat something like 50 percent?). It's part of the risk that professors take when they accept students into their labs.

As for how to tell him... gently but firmly. This is your life and your future. It's nice that you want to stay and help out for a few months, though.

And as for the last set of questions... I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. It's kind of an ethical bind, isn't it? Maybe more experienced GCers will have something to contribute. Best of luck with your vet career!

[TakeruK]

While the decisions to drop out isn't one to be taken lightly (it sounds like you are sure about your decision though), and your advisor (and department and school) has invested a lot of effort and money in you, you shouldn't feel guilty about it because it's part of the risk that schools/departments/profs take when committing to a graduate student. We take a similar risk when committing years of our lives and sometimes personal funds/loans to a graduate school (i.e. that our advisor/school/project will be as advertised)!

I would also add that many people will view voluntary withdrawals from PhD programs sometimes as a failure on part of the school because something happened to turn you off research/PhD/academia. So, while some people will see your decision as "weak"/giving up, not everyone will. You have to prioritize your own goals/desires.

For the question about the courses -- it sounds like these are courses you wouldn't normally take as part of your PhD, so it might raise a flag with your committee/department that you want to take these 5 undergrad courses for seemingly no reason. If these are courses that you would take anyways if you weren't withdrawing then I don't see any additional problem from delaying your withdrawal until after you've taken these courses.

Personally, I don't think there exists a universal (i.e. objective) set of morals/ethics that are "good" or "right". There are actions/decisions and they come with consequences. Some people may think that by learning that technique that is supposed to be brought back to the lab when you know that you are 100% leaving would be a case of you "using" the advisor/lab to get what you want and then leaving. The same could be said for the undergrad courses, taken for free as a grad student. On the other hand, you are well within your rights to take these actions. Until you actually withdraw, you are entitled to all training provided for lab members and you are paying some set tuition rate to the school so you have the right to take the courses.

But that's something only you can decide for yourself! We also don't have access to the full information of your situation. If I was in your shoes, I really don't know what I'd do; it sounds like a tough choice. If the school/department has not treated me well and basically acted to the very limits of their rights then I'd be more inclined to do the same and delay my withdrawal as long as possible so I can get as much out of school as possible and not feel bad about it.

Ethics aside, there are also some practical concerns. If your advisor/school/department finds out or suspect that you only stayed on for awhile longer to get that extra training or courses, it could hurt you in the future. You might end up burning bridges at your current program. It might not matter. But you might need references -- not sure what vet school requires!

Good luck!

[emmm]

If this student's advisor is providing funding, he/she may be also paying the student's tuition as well. In my program, we generally need to discuss any non-required classes we'd like to take with our advisor, as time spent in class is time not spent in lab working on our research. Classes generally need to be ones that will help complete the project more effectively. In other words, we don't have the "right" to take whatever classes we choose to.

[TakeruK]

If this student's advisor is providing funding, he/she may be also paying the student's tuition as well. In my program, we generally need to discuss any non-required classes we'd like to take with our advisor, as time spent in class is time not spent in lab working on our research. Classes generally need to be ones that will help complete the project more effectively. In other words, we don't have the "right" to take whatever classes we choose to.

Right -- I meant to qualify my statement about the "right" to take courses with what I wrote in the preceding paragraph about getting approval from advisor/committee. That is, if these courses can fit into the PhD course requirements somehow, then the student has the "right" to take them.

[SeriousSillyPutty]

Ethics aside, there are also some practical concerns. If your advisor/school/department finds out or suspect that you only stayed on for awhile longer to get that extra training or courses, it could hurt you in the future. You might end up burning bridges at your current program. It might not matter. But you might need references -- not sure what vet school requires!

It seems like the more heads up you can give your adviser, the less hurt he'll be and the more comfortable you'll be in the long run using him as a reference. Would it be honest to say that you care about the success of the lab projects, but have also seen enough to know it's not a long-term career you're interested in? If your skills in the lab are needed (as it seems they are), I'd imagine they'd support you in finishing that last class needed for your master's while you helped out with the lab. Older students in the department may be able to give you some feedback on how they've treated other people who change their mind on the PhD path.

Even if you don't feel you tell your adviser, it will probably make it easier to soften the blow if you at least let on that you're reevaluating things.

[juilletmercredi]

First of all, I agree with everyone else in that guilt is a horrible reason to stay in a PhD program. You have to live your life for you and not for anyone else. You will soon come to be miserable and resent your advisor...graduate school is hard enough even when you are really passionate about it; it's even harder when you simply don't want to do it. (Trust me!) Your advisor will find a way to keep his lab afloat; that is his job.

I agree with everyone in that you have to tell your advisor firmly but gently. I eventually changed my mind and didn't leave, but I did tell my advisor that I was leaving. I told him that I wasn't interested in an academic career and that doing this PhD was really detrimental to my mental health, and so I felt like leaving was the best option for me. I also have a great relationship with my advisor and he was very understanding. (Like I said, I changed my mind and came back, but still.)

I am of the school of thought that believes in holding your cards until you are ready to play them. I see nothing ethically wrong with building skills and getting the most out of your program while you are still there. After all, you are still a student, and your work still benefits them. Somehow academia has managed to trick graduate students into believing that we are 100% on the taking side and that the program is doing all the giving; realize that you are a person of value to this lab and your program, too. It's not like they won't get anything from your work. By "in the fall" you seem to indicate that you are planning to leave at the end of the fall semester 2013. If you are not yet ready to tell him, I would wait until you WERE ready to tell him, and just go on about your business.

Doesn't matter if he thinks you are weak and can't live the lifestyle. Doesn't matter what anyone thinks, really. Many people will assume that about PhD students who drop out without having gotten PhDs themselves, or with having much smoother PhD experiences than those of us who do leave.