Stipends...a touchy subject?

[liastra]

I have a question about PhD stipends: A current student in my new program told me that the Program is raising the stipend amount to $XX,xxx this year. My offer, suffice to say, is not that much, but rather $1000 less than the amount he named. Here's where it gets tricky, I am being offered a $1000 "signing bonus" which would bring me up to the amount he named. However, last I heard, they got the same bonus a few years ago when they joined the program too. So I don't know if I can really count that, because say if our stipend increased every year by $1000, I would always be $1000 behind. Make sense?

Signing bonus not counted, am I supposed to get the same stipend that the current student(s) are getting? Is it prudent to ask a fellow incoming student what they are receiving? I don't want to make any waves but I also don't want to start off my program feeling like I'm getting the short end of the stick. That wouldn't be fair. Who is it safe to ask about this, or no one at all?

Thanks.

Edited August 1, 2012 by liastra

[Eigen]

Not sure where you're getting fair, or short end of the stick from. Different graduate students within a department will make different amounts- usually not hugely different, but certainly in the $1000 range. It depends on funding source, when they joined, and how competitive they were for funding.

You can ask what others make, but it's not really considered polite, just like you wouldn't ask a fellow coworker how much they make.

[liastra]

Thanks Eigen. Basically, all I'm wondering is - is everybody's offer letter/stipend the same (for a particular year)? Is that how it works in a graduate program? Because if it is, then there's no problemo.

But if, say, they pay us differently based on how they ranked us when they decided to accept us into the program, then that seems a little unfair. And the reason i don't know how it works is because they never told us what the stipend was at the interview, so I didn't know what I was going to get until I received the offer letter. If they had told us at the interview I could assume that everybody gets the same amount.

Edited August 1, 2012 by liastra

[Quader]

Discussing stipends, regardless of the situation, feels generally uncomfortable. You said a 'current' student in your 'new' program...so I assume you are going into your first year, and you are speaking of a student who is in their 2nd year or greater?

It is not uncommon to be making less than the more senior students as a first year. It is also possible that another first year could be making more than you depending upon whether or not they receive additional fellowships for example. The program could perhaps say you are receiving a 'signing bonus' as some sort of incentive to have you accept their offer, but this could be offered to all incoming students.

The program wouldn't shaft you so to speak. They wouldn't just single you out and give you $1000 less than every other student.

[liastra]

The program wouldn't shaft you so to speak. They wouldn't just single you out and give you $1000 less than every other student.

Thanks a lot. When you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense.

Yeah the current student I talked to is in his 5th year so I guess I should be lucky to be getting this amount, cause he probably started off way lower than I did. But when he nonchalantly told me (via email) that the program is upping the stipend to the new amount, for some reason it sure sounded to me like everybody was supposed to get that amount. He had no problem disclosing his stipend amount, but I didn't bother to inquire further with him. These emails occurred several weeks ago and I just remembered about it tonight.

I'm pretty sure every student got this signing bonus. In years past, I heard that it was a $1000 gift credit for the bookstore, but now it's just cash.

Edited August 1, 2012 by liastra

[Quader]

Thanks Eigen. Basically, all I'm wondering is - is everybody's offer letter/stipend the same (for a particular year)? Is that how it works in a graduate program? Because if it is, then there's no problemo.

But if, say, they pay us differently based on how they ranked us when they decided to accept us into the program, then that seems a little unfair. And the reason i don't know how it works is because they never told us what the stipend was at the interview, so I didn't know what I was going to get until I received the offer letter. If they had told us at the interview I could assume that everybody gets the same amount.

This other person may have received an additional fellowship in addition to the standard offer. If a program is accepting four students, they won't rank you and then give 20k to their top choice, 19k to their next choice, etc etc

[Quader]

Thanks a lot. When you put it that way, it makes more sense.

Yeah the current student I talked to is in his 5th year so I guess I should be lucky to be getting this amount, cause he probably started off way lower than I did.

I'm pretty sure every student got this signing bonus. In years past, I heard that it was a $1000 gift credit for the bookstore, but now it's just cash.

Ya, nothing to worry about. Offers change from year to year depending upon the program's financial situation.

[liastra]

This other person may have received an additional fellowship in addition to the standard offer. If a program is accepting four students, they won't rank you and then give 20k to their top choice, 19k to their next choice, etc etc

"This other person" - I'm not sure who you're talking about. I have no reason to believe my fellow new/incoming classmates will receive more than I, except because of my own paranoia and belief that I didn't rank in their top candidates (though I got an offer). As I said, the 5th year student said the Program is increasing the stipend to $XX,xxx, so I don't think him receiving $1000 more than me was because he had an additional fellowship. He got $XX,xxx just because that's what it is now. But to whom..

Edited August 1, 2012 by liastra

[Eigen]

We've had more than a $5k variation some years in our incoming class. Between fellowships and different levels of support, we have somewhere around a $10k spread in stipends between different people of different years in our programs. If people focused on it, it could become a big issue and create rifts and bad feelings. But no one does, and things work out pretty well.

The department was just straight up willing to pay some students more than others.

So to answer your question, I've seen a number of letters go out, and they aren't the same. Many of them are the same, or very similar, but not all of them.

There are definitely "typical" stipends within a program, within a year- but then there will also be people who make more, or less.

And it's well possible that the current grad student was misinformed. I was told when I was coming that one fellowship that the offers increased by about $2500 per year- but then it didn't increase my year, and hasn't increased thereafter.

You can do yourself a lot of damage comparing what you're making to what other people are making, but in the end, what matters is what you were offered, and what it was worth to you. The school made you an offer, and you accepted- comparing that to the others won't help, and isn't always an equivalent thing.

But you keep coming back to "fair" in your posts. There's nothing "fair" in how much you get paid vs. how much someone else does- you're all different people. Just like different employees at a company will make different amounts. Maybe one of your classmates negotiated based on the offer from another school.

[ktel]

To add a different viewpoint, my university mandates a minimum level of funding for all incoming graduate students. The only way to get more than this amount is if you win external awards, in which case the university tops up your award with some internal funding, but your internal funding is reduced. In our case it is expected that everybody is getting the same stipend unless they have another award. In our department TAing is extra money as well, as it is not mandatory to get your stipend.

[cajunmama]

My uni, as well, has a set minimum stipend, but some students get more depending on funding source.

[liastra]

Thanks Kitel and Eigen again for the replies.

Eigen- I could see there being a difference or spread in stipend amount in your 2nd year and beyond, because that is based on the department and PI the student chooses, thus depending on "the funds available." However in my program (and most others as I understand) the first year is funded by the program or school of medicine or whatever you want to call it. Basically we are not yet decided on a department/PI yet, as we are going through rotations.

Both of you mention it's possible for a new incomng student to have an award or that it might depend on the "funding source" that's why their stipend might be different. First, I think the funding source is the same for first year,s as I mentioned, is the same. Next, where's this award you speak of come from? The school? I can't imagine the school giving a new student an award because what would it be based upon? If it's something like an NIH grant though, for example, isn't that still technically given to the school...and then the school gives the student the same stipend (thus they get the student for "free" the first year). I'm not sure why an external award would affect their first year stipend, because they wouldn't really keep it and it wouldn't be offered by the school (unless I'm wrong) anyway.

Edited August 1, 2012 by liastra

[Eigen]

Just like any job negotiations, PhD stipends can be negotiated. They aren't set in stone. There are risks, but departments and programs frequently have more money lying around that they can use to attract high quality applicants, or use to lure the "best" applicants away from another school with a better offer. Often there are lots of small internal awards and fellowships (or such things can be made) that will allow some variation in stipend levels.

Even before you choose a PI and do rotations, your file has more than likely been circulated, and the entering class was chosen by different PIs being interested in some of you. And even though you might hot have done this, there are frequently several people that have been in touch with particular PIs, and came to this school strictly to work with then.

And even the admissions committee will have students that they've targeted for recruitment that they'll try to get more money from some source for to "lock in".

It's the same reason different assistant professors starting off will make different amounts. Each of you was different, and in each case the school was competing against other schools for offers- some the school wanted to compete with more than others.

I'm not saying that each of the entering cohort is going to be ranked and offered different amounts, but in a class, there's a definite chance that there will be some higher and some lower offers than the standard. Even though stipends are common in the sciences, it's still best to think of them as a type of scholarship- the best students will get the most in scholarships. And it's not like you're all applying as a blank slate with no background. While most schools just won't offer admission without a stipend, minor variations in terms of a few grand here or there isn't something I would consider uncommon.

It's also worth noting in this context that Ktel is in Canada, which does things distinctly differently in terms of funding than what I would consider the US norm, from past discussions on similar issues.

But in the end, you seem to be focusing on something that isn't a big deal, and you don't even know is true. I would recommend you just focus on yourself, and not try to figure out or compare to others. Is what you're making a fair deal and enough to live on? If so, you're doing fine. It doesn't matter if someone else is making a little more. Comparing yourself to others starts down a very bad road for grad school, imo.

[ktel]

Yes, I am in Canada. And the external awards I refer to are from the national and provincial governments. The way it works here is that all incoming students are typically guaranteed a certain amount of funding, say $20,000. If you receive an external award, such as NSERC, that is $15,000, for example, then technically the university only needs to provide you with $5000 more to match their promised funding. But more often than not, to reward you for getting an external award, they will provide you with $10,000 of internal funding, bringing your total funding $5000 above the minimum. If you have no external awards you will only get $20,000.

[liastra]

Eigen -I know. I'm about to drop the subject. I just wanted to know how it worked. I didn't know you could negotiate the stipend as a new student. I didn't obviously and if I had tried my parents probably wouldve scoffed at me ("be thankful they even accepted you!"). Maybe it's something I can try in my 2nd year. Is that common? I've negotiated my salary before at work in industry and it worked well so I know what it's like.

I don't want you to think I'm hung up on the money. Obviously if I were I wouldn't be doing this, lol. I just want to make sure I get as much as I can/couldve. Don't we all want that?

Ktel- I figured that's what you meant. But that's not really wat I was talking about.

Again, I'm just as soon going to drop this.

[Eigen]

I wouldn't try to negotiate your salary in your second year.

It's kind of a "once you accepted it, you accepted it" kind of thing.

[liastra]

I wouldn't try to negotiate your salary in your second year.

It's kind of a "once you accepted it, you accepted it" kind of thing.

Ok, got it. This is what that student (who's an extremely helpful/friendly guy) said in the email to me a few weeks ago:

[The program] also does spend a great deal of its money on its students, whether it is to provide scholarships to them, or for instance, guarantee funding for students and provide us with stipend increases. Starting in August, our stipends will be increased to 30K, which is HIGHLY competitive.

So it sounds like everybody should be getting 30k. I'm getting 29k, and obviously that should go up each year. But I've been talking to my close friend this morning who's in his 3rd year biochem program [different university], and he says that new/incoming students do not start slightly lower than older students. Hence, the source of confusion.

Maybe my offer letter is old? LOL?

Edited August 1, 2012 by liastra

[Eigen]

Or, something didn't come through and no one got the increase to 30k.

And different universities do things differently- here, you keep whatever stipend you started on, you don't get a "raise" even if successive generations of grad students do. So it's common for the senior grad students to be making less than the newer ones.

[-Star-]

I think that this is dependent on the program and the school. I know there are several schools/programs where your PhD stipend is NOT negotiable and all the students, regardless of the year receive the same stipend from the school. (Though, this may change if you personally are bringing in outside money such as an NSF grant, and most schools will pay you to TA above your required hours if you have any.) 

 

 

Just like any job negotiations, PhD stipends can be negotiated. They aren't set in stone. There are risks, but departments and programs frequently have more money lying around that they can use to attract high quality applicants, or use to lure the "best" applicants away from another school with a better offer. Often there are lots of small internal awards and fellowships (or such things can be made) that will allow some variation in stipend levels.

[Eigen]

Wow, definitely reviving an old post here. 

 

IMO, even at schools were the stipend level is "set", that doesn't always mean everyone is getting paid the same thing. 

 

My school has set stipends. But PIs (or the department) might give a "moving expenses" addition to some first years, or departmental awards, small fellowships, or even an extra supplement out of a grant or an extra assistantship helping with, say, a faculty journal editor position. 

 

Those are what negotiations work with- the possibility of some small amount of extra pay on top of the base stipend that everyone gets. 

[rscneurozombie]

All these comments are great.  I would only add this:

 

A graduate student can only get so much money in total (stipend + tuition reimbursement), which is typically set at a certain limit (unless you get an additional fellowship or "moving/signing bonus").  You'll have to find out if those 5th year students have lower tuition or if this "raise" does not apply to incoming students.

 

They are paying for your school and living expenses because you are an employee that will WORK for them after some classes and rotations.  You are not getting a "scholarship" based on merit.  Start thinking of yourself as an employee and less of a student.  Life is not always fair, so don't freak over a couple thousand dollars unless you KNOW they are targeting you only, although more than likely it could be a simple mistake.  Ask the program administrator if you are still worried about it.  And remember, you may be able to apply for an outside fellowship during your first year, at which point you will make more than those that enter next year!

 

Whether you get 29K or 30K you will be a poor grad student either way.  Just hope your stipend is good enough for where you live and the bills you have to pay.  Make sure you create a budget BEFORE you start, and make sure to update your expenses every couple of months.  Grad school will not make you rich, but you should be able to cover your bills and live slightly better than most undergrads!!!