Cultural Sociology/Qualitative Methods, Applications, and Low GRE Math

[Matt12710]

I'm in a bit of an application conundrum:

I'm afraid an embarrassingly low GRE math score will bomb my graduate sociology applications.

I think I have an otherwise solid, if not stellar, application: salutatorian and Distinguished Honors Program graduate from a non-elite private liberal arts school, majored in double major in sociology and political science with a minor/concentration in English, master's degree in literary and cultural studies that involved a lot of theory found in sociology, experience as a teaching assistant, actual teaching experience in literature and composition & rhetoric, a writing sample from my master's program noting the "spatial" turn in the humanities and the "cultural" turn in the social sciences and benefit of applying urban studies ethnographies to the study of space in literature (as much a social science essay as could be coming out of a literature program), solid letters of reference, etc. I also feel confident about my statement of purpose.

I toyed with graduate school in sociology after undergrad. but decided I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life so I got an M.A. in English instead. Now a few years older and wiser, I realize I have a direction of study for sociology: cultural sociology (in the tradition of Yale's Strong Program) and qualitative methods as well as visual sociology and sociology of gender.

When I took the GRE in 2008 to attend graduate school in English I scored well in the writing (90th percentile), alright in the verbal (78th percentile, I think), and the math didn't matter for English and I blew it off. I made the plan to study like crazy from the spring until now for the GRE (I take it Nov. 1st) but I made the mistake of accepting some adjunct work in English for the experience and because, in an ideal world, it's a field I'd still be involved in to some extent. However, the class I picked up this fall was way more work than I anticipated and it's killed my study time. I really regret taking this course to teach (although it seemed like a good idea at the time). I also underestimated how difficult the GRE math section would be for me. Practice tests have not gone as I would like.

Basically, now I'm scared a below average to abysmal math score will be a huge black mark on an otherwise appealing application. I'm worried about not making it through the first sorting solely due to my GRE math score and the other parts of my application (writing sample, personal statement, letters of reference) never even being looked at. Granted, I'm applying specifically to programs with strengths in cultural sociology and qualitative methods; I'm by no means a quantitative sociologist. Should I worry less since I'm not applying for quantitative sociology? I know I'll have to take statistics and other math courses in graduate school, but I did fine in statistics and other math courses as an undergraduate.

So, will a horrible math score result in immediate dismissal of my application even if I'm applying for highly qualitative forms of sociology? Secondly, assuming I bomb the math section, should I mention in my statement of purpose my strong performance in math class (like statistics) as an undergraduate as evidence I can hack it in sociology even if my GRE score math might imply otherwise? My fear is total rejection across the board from all schools due to one weak part of my application; furthermore, a weak part that might not be as important for me compared to more math-y sociology.

Any insight would be appreciated.

[Willows]

How abysmal are we talking? If you can score in the 80+ percentile, new score of 159, for verbal (usually translates to around 600 on the old scale), your quant score can be a little lower. The 50 percentile for quant is a 151 on the new system, which is supposedly somewhere between a 620-650. So, that's a 1220-1250 score, which I think is enough to get your application looked at anywhere. The minimum cut offs, if listed, are usually 1100, and I have heard the unwritten cutoffs are 1200.

[Darth.Vegan]

Hmmm, so you didn't actually give us a score, I think we need a score to really determine this. If it is below 150 you might have a problem. Interestingly enough, I am in a similar boat, scoring above 90th percentile (163) in verbal but an abysmal 43rd percentile in quant (150). Converted to the old scale it comes out to V:650 Q:630. I had a friend with a scary low quant score (below 25th percentile) last year that got rejected from a lot of places, but it's hard to say if that was why, his verbal was decent (around 75th to 80th I believe). So here's the good news, I was worried about my quant score too, but recently people including my own faculty have made me feel much better about it. Berkeley is the #1 soc program in the country and their published average quant score is 157. I take that to mean that while it won't be impossible for me to break into the top 10 with an otherwise stellar application, chances are I could have a bit of trouble. The reality is though, most soc majors don't score that high on quant. UT-Austin (a strong qual program but hey!) only has an average quant score of 647 (151 on the new scale) and their verbal average is around 584. That means that my application should indeed pass any cut offs they may have and in the case of verbal I am well above the average. Do you have anything else in your record that can mitigate the low quant score? I got an A+ in stats last year and I am hoping that will help mitigate mine a bit. Anyway, we really need to know the score to make a determination, but it seems like at least outside of the top 10, anything around 150 is going to pretty close to the average. Obviously some stronger quant programs will have higher scores, but you did say you are applying for cultural soc. If you're worried about not passing a cutoff, breath, you're probably just fine!

Edited October 27, 2012 by xdarthveganx

[Matt12710]

@ Willows:

Thanks for your response. I take the GRE this Thurs., Nov. 1st. We'll see what happens on the date. I'm wondering if a score could be too low and result in immediate dismissal of an application without the rest of it (writing sample, reference letters, personal statement, etc.) being examined.

@xdarthveganx:

Thanks for your response. See above, and I earned an 'A' in statistics as an undergraduate and performed well in other math courses. I'm wondering if I should mentioned this in my personal statement? Would this slightly mitigate a low GRE math score or just draw more unwanted attention to it?

[Willows]

@ Willows:

Thanks for your response. I take the GRE this Thurs., Nov. 1st. We'll see what happens on the date. I'm wondering if a score could be too low and result in immediate dismissal of an application without the rest of it (writing sample, reference letters, personal statement, etc.) being examined.

No one knows a definitive answer to this, but I will say it probably depends on the school where you are applying. I know from personal experience that there are cutoffs at some schools, and yes that means the rest of your application is never considered by an adcom if you don't meet their minimum score. Like I said before, I've never heard of a cutoff being more than 1200.

[magicunicorn]

If you are really concerned - it might be too late now to sign up but you could take it again, and now you only need to report your highest scores. If you did well in a stats class, the math GRE section should not be that hard if you sit down and really study for it. I think its all mental too.. if you think you aren't good at math, then surprise, you take the GRE and do bad at math (Social psych 101).

[Jay14]

Not to put down what anybody else here has said, but I talked to a Professor at a grad department last week who said that aren't all that concerned with GRE scores, and that if all other parts of the application are strong, a lower GRE score wouldn't hurt much. Again, every program is different.

[Jay14]

who said that they aren't* sorry! haha

[Matt12710]

@billy.r.:

Thanks for your post. That relieves a little stress. I imagine departments vary greatly. I'm sure there are those that rate the GRE highly and use it as a primary cutting mechanism and those that require it save their reputation but barely glance at it.

[jacib]

Using the "results" page on this website, it's possible to get a very rough idea of what schools have looked for in the past. Often it's only a sample of like 3 or 4 acceptances per school, and keep in mind it's a self-selected sample of people who WANT to report what they got, so it's probably higher than the median accepted candidate, but, nevertheless, it's quite possibly the best way to see roughly what the schools you're interested are looking for.

If you're new to the site and don't know what I'm talking about, This is not a full picture of how GRE factors in, but it is a flavor. If you're more curious about GRE's, I've definitely seen sub-600 verbal scores on the board at top ten sociology programs, but I don't recall seeing a sub-600 quant score getting in to a top 10 program. That doesn't mean there weren't any; it just means people didn't report them (or I didn't see them) if there were. Also, "600" forms an easy cut off on the old scores, especially because it would be the same in both quant and verb. However, mentally, it might different with new system because there's less of a clear "just get above this". People might rely on percentages more, people might have two different thresholds (translating 600 would get you roughly, 160 for verbal, 148/150 for quant), or people might just settle out a new minimum at (150 each? 155 each? 160 each?). It's impossible for us to say, in large part because I'm sure each school does it differently. But as someone said before, above 150-ish would probably be just fine for anywhere (in high school, my guidance counselor said it was great that my scores ended in 00 rather than 90, because 90 is generally classed with 50-90, and 00 is class with 00-40; I am sure that professors glancing at scores think the same way).

In my department, usually one professor does a first run through weeding out applications that won't be accepted and only the remaining applications are brought to the full committee (though at my school, even at that point GRE scores are still considered). I have no idea what percentage of applications are taken out initially here, but I imagine that GRE score, interests [i.e. if you fit with the school at all--we don't do social psych here, for example, and if you have a really social psych project we're probably not going to accept you], and GPA are all glanced at in the initial weeding out phase.

As an anecdote, I went to a research university undergrad and one of my friends' jobs was to work in the bio department and she (as an undergraduate English major) weeded out the applications that wouldn't get in based on test scores. She said she felt bad that these people spent 80 dollars on an application that no professor ever looked at. I don't think in sociology the cut-offs are so formal that an undergrad could do it, but you definitely want to be above a certain (often unwritten) minimum. It's just now really unclear what that minimum is. GRE, at my school at least, isn't just a minimum--it discussed by the full committee as well (when I got in one of my professors remembered my test scores as notable) but once it's before the full committee, I think it's more qualitatively evaluated in light of the full application.

[Darth.Vegan]

Considering Berkeley had an average quant score of 157, I doubt they cut off at 160. I agree that verbal should be above 600 for the top 10. Outside of that maybe a little less given Austin 's averages.

[Matt12710]

I earned a 147 on a practice test I took last night. If that holds and, with a little luck, I earn around a 150 then I think I should be alright (or I hope I'll be alright) considering I'm applying for cultural sociology/qualitative methods, I performed well in stats as an undergraduate, and, perhaps most importantly, I'm not solely applying to top 10 schools. Many are 30-50, and some below that. Only certain schools specialize in cultural sociology.

I take the test tomorrow, Nov. 1st!

[Darth.Vegan]

Good luck! Just make sure you score very high in verbal to compensate!

[Matt12710]

Thanks!

[AaronM]

good luck! own it!

[ohgoodness]

Too late to give input but I scored rather low on the quant as well: 152 and was told by my senior advisor (from one of the top10s) that it could become a worry since most of people applying to top10s arrive with scores within the 90th percentile. I'm am applying to social demography/life course which tends to be quant-heavy but the comment was "The quantitative percentile seems low to me, even for students who would not be doing quantitative work.". The recommendation was to ask my letter writers to address this and say that it does not reflect their overall judgement of my skills and if possible - do a retake!

This whole GRE thing is just uh..

Edited November 2, 2012 by cherub