t1racyjacks Posted December 14, 2012 Author Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Thanks for all the input guys. And bamafan, I did think about traumatic repetition and etc etc when I made the post 'generalizing'. It's just that I didn't feel like going on a long theoretical explanation about how generalization hurts blah blah. I think that TakeruK is spot on about things and I don't have anything else to add to his case. So this is why I think you (I mean everyone in general, not Eigen specifically even though his post is quoted above) should not treat International students any different (in this example we are talking about presumption of English proficiency) until you learn that they are indeed different. For example, speak to us as if you were speaking to any other student. Don't treat us differently unless we ask for it or show obvious signs that we do not understand. Similarly, comments like "Omg, this person writes like an International Student", or "oh, it looks like our TA/prof is International, I guess we aren't going to be able to understand his/her accent" are not okay. I think this is pretty obvious to most people though. This is it, essentially. I happen to be fluent in English and I hate it when people assume that I'm not simply because of my nationality. I don't think that it is unreasonable to feel aggrieved about the general (flawed) assumption that international students can't speak fluent english even though this may hold true in some cases. Why hate? Because it is ridiculous to deny that the psychological structure of such sentiments is related to sentiments that result in discrimination against any minority. I challenge people who argue otherwise to push that claim. It seems fair to conclude that most prejudice is not intentionally discriminatory. Hardly anyone who is racist, chauvinist, etc would think of themselves as such. Instead these people rely on 'facts' to prove their opinions 'right', and then use examples to prove their point about the group. Of course whether one has examples or not is not the point. The point is that such thinking is pernicious to minorities. Much of racism etc involves, as TakeRuk points out, a negation of the individual which involves subsuming him/her into a particular group (presumed to be homogenous) and then subjecting him/her (whether intentionally or not) to discrimination based on the assumptions regarding that particular group. I don't buy the thought that speech isn't action. Speech act theory would bear this out. So statements like 'international students can't speak english' are discriminatory and hurtful. In this case it's more of a theoretical gripe than an actual one. For if we suppose that anonymous people behave like that.... but that's what makes up society -- individuals -- and at the end of it all these individuals affect (and effect) policies and social norms/ attitudes etc. As to how to deal with the hate, I suppose since Bear Mace isn't a viable solution, drinking and working on journal papers is Edited December 14, 2012 by t1racyjacks rising_star and 1Q84 2
t1racyjacks Posted December 14, 2012 Author Posted December 14, 2012 I might add that if you look at the problem of self/other, the very separation of 'international students' from 'americans' is part of the binary that seems to be the problem. However I don't think that difference is a problem. The section was set up to cater to people who might have, as a result of their experiences, needs that the typical American student doesn't have. It is not difference that causes the problem but acceptance of difference. I think that denial of difference is immature. Similarly, I am not claiming that some international students don't face problems with speaking/writing english. It's just that I don't think it's right to assume that they do simply because they are international. I must add that the replies here from other international students have helped a little. I probably just need to get a grip on my temper and learn pity. After all, I'm not the pitiful one here. It's those who are making these arbituary distinctions who are.
iowaguy Posted December 14, 2012 Posted December 14, 2012 This is it, essentially. I happen to be fluent in English and I hate it when people assume that I'm not simply because of my nationality. I don't think that it is unreasonable to feel aggrieved about the general (flawed) assumption that international students can't speak fluent english even though this may hold true in some cases. Here's some food for thought but from a different perspective. I studied abroad in Mexico for a year, as did a college friend of mine. I am fair skin, blue eyes; he has dark skin, dark hair & dark eyes (he looks hispanic). We are both native English speakers, and my Spanish is much better than his. In Mexico, strangers would speak VERY slowly to me (until they got to know me better, then they talked normal to me), even though my Spanish is at a near-native level. My friend, OTOH, rarely received this treatment. The Mexicans at first would talk to him as if he were a native speaker, using slang and speaking fast. He struggled to understand them most of the time. Once they got to know his situation they would slow down so that he could understand better. Was I being discriminated against? Should I have hated that situation? (it was one of the best times of my life!) Was my friend being discriminated against?
t1racyjacks Posted December 14, 2012 Author Posted December 14, 2012 I think unfair assumptions were made regarding both you and your friend of course whether both of you took offense at these assumptions -- and it looks like you didn't -- is another matter.
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