POI is a first year professor

[jem6dd]

Hi all,

 

First post, long time reader of the site.  I'm applying to a single Ph.D. program (psychology-based in a school of education) after receiving a master's from a top-20 school.  I have direct internship experience (1 years worth, spread over two internships) and a thesis directly aligned with my POI and his ongoing research projects, and the school's program in general.  I explicitly mention him and only him (along with a supporting, inter-departmental secondary POI) in my Personal Statement.  I've been through the Ph.D. application process before and believe this is a very good fit, by far the best I've found.  I've contacted the POI with my interests and he said they were great and encouraged me to apply (actually knows and loves my advisor's work).

 

I have zero idea what my chances are.  GRE scores seem irrelevant, as they were taken in 2008 and meet the baseline criteria (plus this is a school of ed, so I don't know if it matters especially as I've already gotten a master's).  Also, GPA undergrad and grad is acceptable.  No publications, but my internships were very strong.  Strong recs (including the above advisor), and multiple years in teaching assistantships including in grad school.  The program I'm applying to emphasizes teaching.  Writing sample is my thesis, and because I'm applying to just one program the Personal Statement is completely school-specific.

 

Anyone have an idea of acceptance rates for programs like this?  It is on the lower end of the top 25 in schools of ed (I don't care about rankings), and what makes it interesting and hard to gauge is that the POI is a first year prof.  Do they tend to receive less applications because they are 'unknown?'  The secondary POI is also very new...

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

[selecttext]

Apply to other institutions.

[fuzzylogician]

Apply to other institutions.

 

Not to state the obvious, but how do you think your experienced professors got their experience?

 

OP: what other support network would you have in the program? Ideally since this POI is inexperienced you'd want to have someone who could provide a second opinion and support your advisor to get you through your degree. There are good and bad things about working with a young advisor - the inexperience is the bad, as mentioned, and it'll mean that for all kinds of things you may need to be more active in your education than you might otherwise. You'll learn on the go together, and that may be good or bad. The good thing is that young professors are more likely to be driven to publish, and as you say in this case it's a good fit in terms of interests.

 

As for your chances, you already know it's impossible to tell. But it's indeed likely that young professors have less people who apply to work with them compared to more experienced professors. That may work in your favor, as will the close fit in interests if you described it successfully in your SOP.

[PhDreams]

I guess the one thing I would be concerned about would be what fuzzylogician mentioned - the inexperience. What newness in a department might also mean is that your professor might not have that extra pull that a more veteran professor might have. Seeing as that PhD cohorts are very small, my fear would be that a junior faculty member would get edged out over a senior faculty member if they both wanted to take a student. I erred on the side of caution and asked to work with tenured profs (that also aren't heavily identified in SOPs) but I'm not sure if my strategy will work.

[fuzzylogician]

I guess the one thing I would be concerned about would be what fuzzylogician mentioned - the inexperience. What newness in a department might also mean is that your professor might not have that extra pull that a more veteran professor might have. Seeing as that PhD cohorts are very small, my fear would be that a junior faculty member would get edged out over a senior faculty member if they both wanted to take a student. I erred on the side of caution and asked to work with tenured profs (that also aren't heavily identified in SOPs) but I'm not sure if my strategy will work.

Actually in healthy departments there would be interest in helping the new hire settle in and get on track, and that would include having them starting to supervise students. There are other concerns with having an inexperienced advisor that are similar to what you mentioned - they may have less resources to get students extra funding or to help them go the conferences; they may simply be unaware of procedures or off-books ways of doing things, they may not know which administrator to schmooze to get an application approved - things of that sort. Of course, there may also be department-internal politics that could hurt the advisor, so that's a worry too  -- but it's just as possible that powerful professors have also made enemies who will try to hurt them behind their back...unless you have concrete reasons to worry, I'd leave those concerns aside.

[jem6dd]

All good feedback, thank you.

 

The POI studied under a big name in the field, and the department is small and intimate, so I imagine the cutthroat mentality doesn't apply...it's a good school, but not so elite that people don't help each other out.  I believe there's enough research overlap with other professors that the POI has allies, at the very least.  The emphasis on interdepartmental study also seems like a good sign...there isn't a isolatory nature.  I come from a similar program that encourages dual advisorships in doctoral students, so the newness doesn't concern me.  The inexperience, yes, but in my mind it would be exciting to start with someone...I could get in on the ground level of some great research.  I asked him directly about funding, and he said there are good opportunities with teaching/research positions...I may be naive, but I think there's a common goal in the department, and young professors who have earned the right to be hired will be given every chance to succeed.

 

Until they don't...as I have seen firsthand.  But the POI is publishing frequently. 

 

To the succint commenter...I'm 30, and have had a very unorthodox 12 years.  I was planning on taking a year off, but then saw this program as my significant other was researching assistant professorships in a different field (very different), and I had time to apply.  I applied to 12 English Ph.D. programs years back, got pretty much nothing because I had no focus and no idea where to apply and no personalization in my PS.  This is my strongest version yet, by a very long shot.  It's completely devoted to the school.

 

I know by this time in my academic career (and life) that there are a million variables.  I got nothing from 12, and am much more qualified for this 1.  Why not?  I'm not a kid anymore.  Better one strong app than 12 crap ones. 

 

That's why I applied to one and will not apply to others.  Que sera sera. 

[PhDreams]

All good feedback, thank you.

 

The POI studied under a big name in the field, and the department is small and intimate, so I imagine the cutthroat mentality doesn't apply...it's a good school, but not so elite that people don't help each other out.  I believe there's enough research overlap with other professors that the POI has allies, at the very least.  The emphasis on interdepartmental study also seems like a good sign...there isn't a isolatory nature.  I come from a similar program that encourages dual advisorships in doctoral students, so the newness doesn't concern me.  The inexperience, yes, but in my mind it would be exciting to start with someone...I could get in on the ground level of some great research.  I asked him directly about funding, and he said there are good opportunities with teaching/research positions...I may be naive, but I think there's a common goal in the department, and young professors who have earned the right to be hired will be given every chance to succeed.

 

Until they don't...as I have seen firsthand.  But the POI is publishing frequently. 

 

To the succint commenter...I'm 30, and have had a very unorthodox 12 years.  I was planning on taking a year off, but then saw this program as my significant other was researching assistant professorships in a different field (very different), and I had time to apply.  I applied to 12 English Ph.D. programs years back, got pretty much nothing because I had no focus and no idea where to apply and no personalization in my PS.  This is my strongest version yet, by a very long shot.  It's completely devoted to the school.

 

I know by this time in my academic career (and life) that there are a million variables.  I got nothing from 12, and am much more qualified for this 1.  Why not?  I'm not a kid anymore.  Better one strong app than 12 crap ones. 

 

That's why I applied to one and will not apply to others.  Que sera sera. 

 

Good luck! I love your focus and excitement! That's how it should be. I really hope they see your passion.

[selecttext]

I meant that you should apply to other institutions in addition to your primary choice. There is always a chance that you will not get in, and given your worries, you should make contact with many professors. Since you have more direction, you would probably have a better chance of admission. You can decide which is the best fit once you have a bunch of offers. Applying to 12 places is a lot and you could certainly write an excellent application to 3 or 4 institutions. There are people of all ages in graduate school. You may even feel young as a 30 year doctoral student.

Edited January 9, 2013 by david.timerman

[jem6dd]

I meant that you should apply to other institutions in addition to your primary choice. There is always a chance that you will not get in, and given your worries, you should make contact with many professors. Since you have more direction, you would probably have a better chance of admission. You can decide which is the best fit once you have a bunch of offers. Applying to 12 places is a lot and you could certainly write an excellent application to 3 or 4 institutions. There are people of all ages in graduate school. You may even feel young as a 30 year doctoral student.

 

Point taken.  The reason for applying just to one is that I had a very late, unexpected start...I was planning on applying for next year.  If this doesn't work out (which it very well might not), I'll do pretty much exactly what you suggest...3-6 even.  I'll have a lot more time to research places.  And yes, 12 was a lot for the wallet. 

 

I'm aware I'll probably be young as a ed student in a Ph.D. program, seen that first hand in my master's.  Probably more so in education than most fields.  I meant more I have a better understanding now than 5-10 years ago about the process and it's unpredictability...it's a crap shoot.  I appreciate your second reply...thank you.

 

 

Good luck! I love your focus and excitement! That's how it should be. I really hope they see your passion.

 

Thanks...I'm glad it came through, even after midnight with a bad cold.  I hope someone sees it too, and that I've backed it up with my materials.  My recs should be helpful but who knows?  I really appreciate your well wishes 

[selecttext]

I understand, but it isn't too late to get a good app together. Many universities take applications right into march and even april. Once you have an excellent app together, and people willing to write letters on your behalf, you might as well apply while it is all still fresh! remember, the supervisor needn't have identical research interests to your own. good luck, and I hope whatever you decide works for you.