Does my low AWA lowers my chance of admission

[aaa57]

I have a MSc in electrical engineering and am applying to a MSc in management science and engineering at Stanford. I wrote for GRE and my scores are Q 164, V 149 and AWA 3.0. How you see my chances to get into the program? Btw I am an international student and my GPA is 4.0. I am really worried about my status.

 

Any advises and past experiences are appreciated  

[iowaguy]

Your AWA might be a problem (11th percentile) but, IMHO, your V of 149 is your biggest problem with a top program like Stanford.  V149 = 40th percentile.  The combo of your low AWA and low V might raise some red flags regarding your abilities with English.

 

Do you know what the average percentile is for Stanford admits in your program?  I would guess somewhere in the 80-90% range based on the stats I have seen for their other grad programs...

 

Do you have time to study and re-take before your application deadline?

[aaa57]

Actually I don't have enough time to retake it as the deadline is approaching. And you are right the average is the same for our program as well. But do they take internationals the same as native-speakers? Is there any way to compensate it?   

[iowaguy]

If anything, international students are held to a higher standard from my understanding, at least for PhD's.  Granted, international students often don't score as high in V or AWA if English is not their 1st language.  But, for instance, at Duke (arguably not even as prestigious as Stanford) the PhD acceptance rate for international students is lower than for domestic students (49% of all applicants but 34% of acceptances).  That would suggest to me that international students need a stronger overall "package" in order to effectively compete...  This is for PhD's, for M.S. it could be different?

 

http://gradschool.duke.edu/about/statistics/admitallphd.htm

[aaa57]

It might be the same for Stanford but could you please comment of the percentile of the internationals accepted to Duke's? My understanding is around 60% on average, is that correct? do they overlook AWA for MSc applicants?  

[iowaguy]

Looking at Duke's statistics for PhD admissions

 

http://gradschool.duke.edu/about/statistics/admitallphd.htm

 

we see that 8,171 people applied, 49% of whom were international (3,998).  Which means that the remainder are domestic (4,173).

 

For admissions, 994 were offered a spot, 34% of whom were international (335).  Which means that 659 were domestic.

 

So, 4173 domestic applicants applied, and 659 got an offer of admission (15.8% acceptance rate for domestic).  On the other hand, 3,998 international students applied, and only 335 got an offer (8.4% acceptance rate for international).

 

So, my conclusion is that it's a tougher landscape for an international student than a domestic student, for whatever reason (GRE scores, experience, language barrier, etc).  At least that's what the PhD admissions statistics would imply...

[PeakPerformance]

Hi,

    I tend to agree with IowaGuy: the AWA score is more important for international students, as it is used to assess a candidate's ability to communicate effectively in English. The GMAT Verbal, on the other hand, is just about reading knowledge/comprehension of a language and it is easier for non-native speakers of English to achieve high scores in this section. How did you do on the TOEFL? Did you take this exam? High TOEFL scores could offset a low AWA score. But 3.0 is very low and you really need at least a 4.

    While you may not have enough time to retake the test before the application deadline, you could always take it after you submit the application and indicate in your application that another GMAT score will be arriving shortly after the deadline -- if it is indeed possible to set up a test date quickly.

 

Good luck.

[aaa57]

Thank you for your comment, actually we were talking about GRE, but since I am taking my MSc from a canadian school and my BSc was from abroad, so I waived TOEFL. However my IELTS score was quite good and it was 7.0. Do you think a good SOP can do anything influential for me? I am really disppointed by AWA.   

[Seeking]

It's true that non-native speakers of English are expected to have higher GRE-Verbal and AWA scores than domestic candidates.

 

That said, Management-Science is a quantitative-intensive field and hence, GRE-Quant will be more important here, although you'll be required to show that you can express your complex arguments coherently and clearly.

 

If you have a strong writing sample and SOP - showing the ability to write and express well apart from other aspects - and if you can show awards, distinctions, recognition in English-related activities, I think your IELTS score of 7.0 should be able to pull you through the cut-off threshold. 

 

Whether it will help you through selection and funding will depend upon how strong your whole application package is, since your discipline will get a lot of applications from candidates having much higher GRE scores and perhaps equally strong applications. 

 

If you re-take the GRE, you have to make sure to keep both Verbal and Quant scores high. Your Quant score should not go down if you write the GRE again.

 

So, another option is to send them a scanned copy of your IELTS scores and re-take the IELTS or TOEFL instead of the GRE - to show your current fluency in English.

 

This will save you from the possibility of the lowering of your GRE-Quant in the 2nd round.

 

If your entire application package is exceptional - in the top 2-5% category, then perhaps you should be able to get through with these GRE-scores. But in any event, you should send them a copy of your IELTS scores.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Seeking

[aaa57]

Many thanks for your comment, now it makes more sense I really appreciate it

[uromastyx]

That Verbal will hurt you more than the AWA. I would focus on both for your retake, but really focus on the Verbal. That will require lots of time working with flashcards and reading problems. Good luck!