Stanford Aero/Astro

[DocLex]

Along with several others, I received an admit email to Stanford Aero/Astro M.S. yesterday. I am hoping there are some GradCafe members with some "insider" knowledge of the program that can answer some questions I have.

My goal is to do research and obtain a PhD. I made this clear in my SOP and by "checking the correct boxes" on the application form. After researching previous years' threads and reading my admit letter carefully, I believe there is a significant chance the offer will be unfunded. (The big indicator appears to be the presence of a reimbursement offer for the visit day trip.)

I am not too worried about paying for a term of tuition in order to get my foot in the door (join a lab and gain a RAship after proving my worth). What I am not okay with is a program that is an "extension of undergrad"- take classes for two years, get a diploma, and leave. My sense is that, by default the M.S. program will tend towards the flavor of an MEng rather than an M.S->PhD program. Does anyone know if this is true? If it is, is there a reasonable opportunity for a proactive student with some significant experience to prove their worth and gain some funding after a term or two? Are there any statistics out there about funding opportunities? I know there is a Stanford Fellowship. Does anyone know how many they give out to an incoming class? From previous posts, it appears that you find out if you were nominated in that acceptance email.

Thanks in advance.

[zecone13]

I went in and talked to a few people in the aero department last year about just that. One prof told me that both the aero and ME departments at Stanford made you get an MS first because generally they liked the assurance of knowing that their Ph.D students had a high quality education before they start. They don't know the quality of your undergrad curriculum when you come in. Because of this, they rarely take MS students from other schools into their Ph.D program, and make incoming undergrads get an MS first. In addition, they admit a lot of undergrads into their MS program but only have a few slots for their Ph.D program. He told me that if I didn't check the box saying that I'd like to continue to a Ph.D on my application for MS, there was no possible way to continue on to a Ph.D later (you can't petition in after 2 years of MS if you don't check this box on your application at the start). In addition, to do a Ph.D you have to have an adviser that wants you to continue on under them before you apply to a Ph.D 2 years down the road. You will want to have done research under that adviser for the 2 years of your MS, and even after they sign the proper forms, you have to pass your qual exams (which I've heard have gotten easier for aero in recent years). Apparently those have somewhere around 50-75% pass rate and you can take them twice.

If you get past all that and are able to fund yourself for 2 years of MS tuition (somewhere around 80k), you may begin your Ph.D at Stanford's aero dept, which is generally funded. It sounds like a lot of hoops to go through, but they want to make sure you're dedicated. I also talked with a Ph.D student who said they awarded very few fellowships each year, so while there is a slim chance of getting funding for an MS, most students pay their own way through it. He said the EE department was notorious for admitting MS students who want to continue to a Ph.D, making them pay 80k, and then flunking them on their qual exams and not letting them continue to a Ph.D even though that's what they set out to do when entering grad school.

Also, question for you: Did they say anything about how big the entering class is this year or if admissions are done? I didn't hear back yesterday and I'm a little nervous now. I don't know if they sent everything out or not but I applied for robotics/computer vision also. What is your profile like if you don't mind me asking ?

Edit: for others who didn't get acceptances yesterday, grad coordinator just sent me an email saying that my application was currently under review (so there's hope for us!)

Edited January 23, 2013 by zecone13

[DocLex]

Ugh, I didn't realize there were top-ranked programs that make it the norm for students to go 80k into debt to fund a PhD (if they're lucky). It seems this would water-down their talent pool considerably to those that are willing to go into debt. This really makes me wish I would have applied to more fellowships! I was half-assuming that a masters acceptance without funding is 1/2 a rejection, but not so at Stanford apparently.

As far as research interests and schools applied to, we're remarkably similar. My interests lie on the boundary between computer vision and control systems. We also applied to several of the same programs: Berkeley EECS (haven't heard anything, assuming reject), CMU Robotics Institute, MIT Aero/Astro, and Caltech CDS.

I had a 3.9ish GPA, Math major, Decent State School, Several Undergrad Research Experience, and Several Years in industry in research oriented roles. I would be very surprised if you don't get in, given your profile. Keep me posted!

[zecone13]

Wow, we're the same person! Yeah, I'm not too fond of the debt, but Stanford is arguably the best place you can go to school for our discipline. Aside from the academics, it's the only school of the top 4 in robotics that is based in Silicon Valley, so there is an alleged sense of entrepreneurship permeating the campus. That's worth the debt to me.

[rck154]

Edit: for others who didn't get acceptances yesterday, grad coordinator just sent me an email saying that my application was currently under review (so there's hope for us!)

Glad to hear that applications are still under review - I'm hopeful there will be another wave of acceptances prior to the vist day.

In terms of the other discussion, at least for me I'll only be able to go if I get some sort of outside funding since the other offers will most likely be funded at the institutions that offer Ph.D. acceptances to bachelor's students.

Here's to hoping the waiting period ends soon....

[puertorrob]

I'm a first year MS student in the department right now. There's a limited amount of fellowships for MS but there are some. I was fortunate enough to get one as a course assistant for 5 quarters. It was awarded to me by the school of engineering, not aero/astro. If you don't get a fellowship, you could always do what one of my classmates did. Pay for the first quarter and become a CA starting winter quarter, but it's going to be quarter by quarter thing. 

As for getting to PhD, it's not impossible, you just have to demonstrate your interest in a research area and take the courses that your PI teaches so that he/she gets to know you. I'm doing that now and I already talk to this professor weekly and go to lab meetings as well. However, I don't know of anybody that has gotten an RAship as an MS student. You get that once you pass quals. 

 

If you want to work on space related stuff, this is the place to be. We're surrounded by space startups and we often host people that are very important in the space community. Just so you get an idea, these are some things that are happening in the next two weeks:

 

http://stanford.edu/group/policyforum/cgi-bin/drupal/

 

http://events.stanford.edu/events/336/33669/

 

At Stanford we work on very fundamental research (TRL < 4). If you want to be a pioneer in your field and get published in a prestigious journal, you come to Stanford. If you're more of a hardware/testing person or are just looking to do something that a lot of other people are doing (which is fine), you might be better off going somewhere else.  

 

Good luck making your decision. 

Edited January 27, 2013 by puertorrob

[DocLex]

Thanks for the information, Puertorrob.

- When you say the route to PhD is not impossible, do you have any rough numbers in mind, e.g. for every 3 bright-eyed students that come in to the program expecting a PhD, only 1 make it in? Obviously, it will be rough, but I'm just trying to get a sense of scale.

- As far as fellowship information goes, were you notified with your acceptance that you were nominated and provided travel reimbursement for visit day?

Stanford is definitely my top choice, but reading threads like this: gives me pause!

Edit: I feel bad linking the above conversation because it was so contentious. Reading it after gaining acceptance into Stanford engineering M.S. feels like discovering Santa's not real. Beware. As with all information from forums, it should be taken with a grain of salt.

Edited January 28, 2013 by DocLex

[mnipenny]

Oh, I'm in the same interests with you guys! I still didn't get any feedback from Stanford.

3.9ish GPA, double major in ECE, several research experiences, Top 5 Aero undergrad, one 1st Author conference paper pending.

Where's my AD?  So sad. But my GRE score sucks...only 3 for AW.

[puertorrob]

50% of people pass quals the first time and 70% pass The second time. Although Ive heard last year the percentage was higher.

My acceptance letter said I had no funding and I was invited to visit day with no reimbursement. The funding came later when I was invited to grad diversity day.

Look, Stanford is for adventurous people that are willing to take risks. They will never offer guaranteed funding for 5 years like other schools do. You have to take the risk off going through the masters program and showing to the university that you are PhD material. If you feel like stanford isn't good enough for you because it may have a slightly higher acceptance rate than other schools, then go somewhere else. All I can say is that is that I had 5 years of funding at 2 other top 5 schools and decided to go to stanford instead and I do not regret it.

This morning I was having a conversation with the CEO of a company in the aero industry about an idea that i have for a startup. I can say that this was only possible because of the powerful network that you become a part of once you join the stanford community.

[DocLex]

Puertorrob, thanks for taking the time to answer. It's really helpful.

Mnipenny, I don't know anything more than you about the admissions process or dates. Good luck!

Edited January 28, 2013 by DocLex

[mnipenny]

Puertorrob, thanks for taking the time to answer. It's really helpful.

Mnipenny, I don't know anything more than you about the admissions process or dates. Good luck!

Thanks! I guess maybe I'm just not Stanford's cup of tea...lol.

And happy for you.

[joshir31]

Does anyone know if there are going to be any more acceptances for Stanford's Aero Astro MS program or have they send out all the acceptances in the month of January itself? (Weird knowing that they say all decisions by March 15th).

 

I emailed Patrick (the admissions coordinator) again today and he replied saying the application was under review...but Stanford's website already has Congratulating message for all newly admitted and visit day scheduled for Feb 15th.

 

Don't know if it’s all done or there is still a possibility of another wave of new admits.

Edited February 5, 2013 by joshir31

[zecone13]

Someone else on here said they asked their friend to go visit the graduate coordinator, who told him that only a small fraction of the AA admissions were sent out on Jan 23/24. This is a very indirect reference, but I'll believe it.

 

I have a feeling they would like for everyone to attend visit day, but their planning is less than ideal due to the GRE score matching screw up. I think that is also the reason that we see so few admits on the results search. My application just changed from incomplete to complete 2-3 days ago, so there has to be some sort of activity going on behind the scenes still.

[joshir31]

Oh wow...if the status of your application changed just a couple of days ago then for sure there is some sort of activity going on.

 

My girlfriend, who has also applied to the program with me, called the graduate coordinator office today and he told her that so far only 40% of the applications were reviewed and out of those acceptances were send out in the month of January.

 

I am trying to be hopeful!!

[zecone13]

Ahh that's good to know. I guess I am in that 60%, which brings my chances/hopes up a bit!!!

 

Good luck to you!! The anticipation is killing me. I'm leaving the country and will have no internet pretty soon, so I hope the results come out before that or else I'll have to wait a month to hear

[joshir31]

Good Luck to you too mate!! I hope another wave of acceptances come soon and we are a part of it!!

[ssingh]

On a related note, does anyone know how many fellowships are given out by the faculty (on average)? Thanks

[balnitsa_grd]

Hey, guys, same here. I am also waiting for the letter for PhD. And also my application is still incomplete because of the GRE scores although the coordinator said they have my GRE scores. 

 

Btw this is my reapplication. From experience, I just wanted you to know that. If you don't get accepted, Stanford doesn't send you an email. They send you a rejection letter by mail. Therefore, it takes a lot of time to reach if you are living out of the country. I got my last rejection letter in April last time. Hopefully it will be my last rejection letter

Edited February 6, 2013 by balnitsa_grd

[mnipenny]

Hey, guys, same here. I am also waiting for the letter for PhD. And also my application is still incomplete because of the GRE scores although the coordinator said they have my GRE scores. 

 

Btw this is my reapplication. From experience, I just wanted you to know that. If you don't get accepted, Stanford doesn't send you an email. They send you a rejection letter by mail. Therefore, it takes a lot of time to reach if you are living out of the country. I got my last rejection letter in April last time. Hopefully it will be my last rejection letter

My friends who applied for MS last year got rejection email right after they sent out all the admissions. It was about Feb 2/3. I guess they just don't email rejection for PhD applicants?

Edited February 10, 2013 by mnipenny

[balnitsa_grd]

My friends who applied for MS last year got rejection email right after they sent out all the admissions. It was about Feb 2/3. I guess they just don't email rejection for PhD applicants?

Hi, 

 

This was 2 years ago for my MS application.

 

Balnitsa

[balnitsa_grd]

Btw I looked at last years grad cafe posts, but couldn't find any rejection "via email", all the rejections for aero astro are "via postal service". Are you sure your friends got rejection "via email"

[mnipenny]

Btw I looked at last years grad cafe posts, but couldn't find any rejection "via email", all the rejections for aero astro are "via postal service". Are you sure your friends got rejection "via email"

I'm sure they got email right after all the admissions were sent out at the beginning of Feb.

And according to grad cafe, see http://thegradcafe.com/survey/index.php?q=stanford+aero*

The latest post from last year is a rejection via email although it was late in March.

[ankit.shah]

Hi guys

 

I got an accept mail on 18th Jan about the MS admit. Also there was a mention regarding scheduling of 2 telephonic interviews for fellowship selection process, 

 

I see that there are quite a few Stan Aero 2013 admits in the results page. Have any of you guys completed the interviews or received the dates for that? If yes could you share a bit about the format of those? 

 

Thanks

[aero9]

Ahhh...yes. Stanford's funding for Aero/Astro is very tricky. If you are being reimbursed for travel I can say with 95% certainty that you will be considered for fellowships to cover your first 5 quarters at Stanford or more (I met someone last year who got 3 years covered). I believe last year about 15 people were interviewed for fellowships (there are 3 X 10-minute interviews if I remember correctly) although I don't know how many of us actually received one. I would guess around 10 so only 20% of an incoming class of 50.

 

It is also difficult to find TA's since Stanford does not have an undergraduate Aero/Astro department so you have to compete with mechanical engineering students to TA undergrad mechanical classes (please feel free to correct me current Stanford students!). Some people got creative and TA'd for math classes or even foreign language ones as well. There are other ways to get funded such as NSF, NDSEG, etc.

 

I can also say with a fairly high level of certainty that the qualifying exam at Stanford is probably the most difficult among all the other aerospace grad schools based on pass rates and what I heard when I was visiting schools last year.

 

Although these may be 'negative' aspects of Stanford's Aero/Astro program it is still an incredibly good program. Very high quality professors and the networking is extremely powerful. It is true that your first year is much more class heavy than the other years but that is to make sure everyone reaches the same academic standards. There are people who come from different backgrounds so they may not have taken an intensive fluids class for example. My advice to you is don't worry about the funding situation until you have to. I believe only 25% or less (again Stanford students please feel free to correct me here) of 1st year students end up paying their way. They will address this a lot during visit day.

[balnitsa_grd]

My application has just changed from INCOMPLETE to COMPLETE, seems like they are already doing something, which is good!