Going straight to Ph.D from undergrad

[VioletAyame]

Hi everyone! I can't tell you how glad I was when I discovered this site a few weeks ago. I'm a recent grad from a state school in CA, and as part of the school's Honors Program I did an original research as my undergrad thesis. Both my mentor and the program director loved it (I received the Best Project award), and they encouraged me to go to grad school to eventually do research and teach. My mentor has already been committed to helping me along the process, i.e picking out programs, going to conferences & introducing me, but I'm really not confident about my chance of getting in to a good Ph.D straight from undergrad. I emailed some of the programs in my preliminary research and some were welcoming while others said that even though it's not mandatory to have a M.A, it will very much limit my chances if I don't have one.

I will have a little bit more than a year of experience on my belt by the time the deadline comes (I'm thinking of applying for Fall 2014). So what do you guys think? I appreciate any advice or insight you have on the subject.

[commcomm]

That's awesome that you have figured out your path so early. I don't think I really understood what research was by the end of my undergrad - and I certainly didn't appreciate it until well into my Masters program.

 

I won't claim to know everything about all comm programs (I'm assuming you're talking about comm) but from my experience at two universities, I don't know of anyone who was admitted straight from undergrad. 

 

What you'll normally see is people admitted into a sort of "research-track" Masters program. They take all the credits required for the M.A. and then write a thesis. Once they've defended the thesis, the graduate committee simply allows them to trek on in the doctoral program. Everything they did for their Masters counts toward the PhD - so if your Masters was 26 credit hours and you need 60 for the PhD, you will only do another 34 credit hours (along with prelims and a dissertation, of course)

 

I'm sure there are exceptions - and that people are admitted into doctoral programs straight out of undergrad. Still, it's far more likely that you would be classified as a Masters student until you have accumulated enough credits to be on even footing with the rest of the PhD cohort.

 

So when you are chatting with professors or advisors at potential schools, make sure to ask about the possibility of being admitted directly into the PhD program AND the possibility of being admitted as a Masters student with every intention to continue into the doctoral program. 

 

I'm 26 and am the youngest person in my doctoral program - so you are waaaaay ahead of the game already. My advice is to find a school that will fund you for your Masters continuing on to a PhD (it will give you extra time to learn and publish anyway!)

[uromastyx]

Go for it!!

[VioletAyame]

@mrpbn7 I guess I should have made it clearer in my post: You're absolutely correct, I was talking about a combined MA/PhD program, where I can earn credits for my MA (they may or may not grant me the degree though) then go straight to PhD. I think it's save me a lot of time during the program and also I won't have to apply another time. I want to do that instead of going to MA separately because I think it'll give me a better chance to get tuition remission and/or assistantship. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

However most programs I've checked out seem unclear whether they can be combined or not. For example, both USC Annenberg and Ann Arbor said that they accept people from heterogeneous educational backgrounds, but when I emailed them to ask if I need a MA to apply, USC said it's totally OK (I checked and the youngest person to get accepted last year was only 22!), while Ann Arbor said it's not required but it's not likely I'll get in without one. Even so at USC I'll be competing with peple who have completed their master degrees and/or have many more years of experiences. I'm just trying to measure my chances here to see if I should go through with this or not.

 

 

@uromastyx Thanks a lot, that's very encouraging!

[commcomm]

@VioleyAyame - ah, I did miss that. 

 

You have a good plan! I'm not sure how other programs work - but at my school, you would apply for the Master's track and write in your purpose statement that you have every intention of continuing on to get your PhD, when the time comes. There are three research-track MA students in my program right now and all three are continuing on to earn their PhDs - now with 25 credits completed and solid relationships built with faculty members. 

 

You point out a few key things, one of which is funding. One reason the MA track and PhD tracks are officially separated is because of available monies. Many of the members in my PhD cohort have four-year funding packages while the MA students have two-year packages (the ones continuing on will probably get a new package during this current admissions cycle - but that's not guaranteed). I have never heard of someone receiving six-years of guaranteed funding upon admission - and that's probably how long it will take you to accumulate the required number of credits (probably around 60).

 

You also pointed out that you will up against people who already have advanced degrees and probably a mix of professional/research experience. That certainly doesn't mean you're screwed - admissions processes are somewhat of a mystery - but you're talking about two great comm programs, so don't be surprised if they tell you to go earn your MA. 

 

I think you should continue to press forward if you know this is what you want to do. I will suggest that you talk to some students from the programs you are interested in to get a better idea of how things work in the department. The graduate advisor (or contact person for admission) should be able to put you in touch with someone. 

[rhetormethis]

I went straight from undergrad into a PhD program (I'm actually at USC Annenberg, so if you'd like to PM me I'd be happy to talk to you about it more). There were parts of it that weren't as difficult as I expected it to be and then there were things that ended up being challenges that came out of nowhere.

 

Part of the problem you have starting a PhD program without an MA (although I think this would be less of a problem if you're doing a combined MA/PhD) is that you just aren't anywhere near as familiar with the way academia works, especially at that level. There's also a huge adjustment in the amount of work and reading you're doing and how much of the work is self-directed that's much greater if you're coming straight from undergrad. It's totally do-able though, so if you know a PhD is something you want to do, I wouldn't let the fact that you don't have an MA scare you off from applying straight to PhD programs. What I might do, however, is apply to a mixture of MA, MA/PhD, and PhD programs, so that you've got options.

[commcrazy]

Ok, I doubt anyone will actually see this reply, but just in case...

 

I did this. I presented at NCA as a senior in undergrad and skipped right to a Ph.D program. There are both benefits and downsides to doing this.

 

Benefit: You never have to do the application process again (and you get to stay in the same place longer--could also be a problem, depending.) You'll also have a lot of time to form relationships with your advisor and committee members as well as your cohort. (realized this also saves a lot of $ and time--no more application fees, writing additional SOPs or requesting LORs.)

Benefit: You're usually out in less time (five instead of six years), and you probably won't have to write an MA thesis.

Downside: You won't have anyone forcing you to write an MA thesis, which usually gets a lot of play on the conference circuit.

Benefit/Downside: You're with people who know their shit already--for example, I'm one of two people in my cohort of 10 who doesn't already have a masters degree. Discussions are awesome. The downside part to this--you feel stupid. Often.

Downside: You're also competing directly with these human beings who have more education/teaching experience than you--for summer jobs, department awards, etc.

Benefit: It will look rad on your CV, and you'll generally be younger than everyone else once you get on the job market and eventually get tenured. (which is nice if you're into reproducing or anything before you're 40)

Downside: You will be expected to figure out most things on your own--ie conference applications, listservs, how to write seminar papers and juggle 900 pages of reading a week; no one will hold your hand.

Benefit: The 3rd years and above are great resources for the above things--and you'll see exactly what the comps/dissertation process looks like.

Downside: You're expected to know much more concretely what you expect to do in the coming years--the MA programs are generally more flexible and general, letting you take time to figure that stuff out.

 

Wow. That was a way longer post than I intended. Generally, shoot for the stars, but try for a combination. There are a ton of great masters programs that will fund for the two years--of course, don't go anywhere they won't fund you--but I'm 22 and doing fine in a PhD program.

[Ly Đinh]

Hi commcrazy, you are really impressive!

 

I'm a rising senior at USC Annenberg, pursuing my honors program in the upcoming year and I could really use some valuable insights on how you got to where you are!

 

Its amazing that you are already in a PhD Program at 22! 

 

I'm looking both into the PhD and Masters program, but specifically more interested in PhD. I don't know many Masters Programs in Communication that provide full funding, could you give me some recommendations and referrals to those programs? That would help me so much.

 

Thank you Decaf and everybody! 

Fight On. 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Ly Đinh

[Duna]

Hey Ly! I am sure I am speaking for all of us Annenberg PhDs when I offer to come talk to us about all of your questions. We're totally happy when our undergrads decide to move on to a PhD!

rhetormethis went straight from undergrad to grad school and is doing great... Send her a pm Or me. Or come downstairs and talk to us, or your TAs.

[VioletAyame]

Wow I haven't checked back to this thread in a while and was so pleasantly surprised by all the replies! You guys made me feel so much better about my chances, thank you. I just took my GRE last Friday and got 170V & 164Q, which I'm still giddy about. Hopefully my GPA and GRE score can compensate somewhat for my lack of experiences and publications.

 

rhetormethis, USC is my top choice. I will definitely PM you and ask for advice.

 

commcrazy, that is super impressive! Thanks for all the pros and cons - I guess there would be a list like that for any decision I make. Do you have any recommendation for some good and funded MA programs out there? Like Ly Đinh, I'm trying to diversify my options and I'm having a little trouble finding those.

 

Duna, thanks for replying to my other thread about programs as well. I didn't know that you're at USC! I'm coming to the Prospective Graduate Student Visit Day on Nov 8, will you be there by any chance? Same question for rhetormethis - it would be great to have a chance to meet and talk to you.

[Duna]

Uhm. You're welcome!

 

I will be in town but I am not sure how available I will be since it's my birthday and I already have a research group meeting and some other stuff on my schedule for that day. They also haven't really told us about that day yet, haha. But I suppose I'll be around for a bit to chat.