PhD in Creative Writing

[CastineGrrl]

Are there others out there who have applied to PhDs in Creative Writing or English with a creative dissertation? Of the 10 programs I applied to, 3 of them are for creative writing: Nebraska, USC, and Ohio University. I hold an MFA in poetry and am seduced by the possibility of further poetry mentorship and a second complete manuscript guided by the imposed structure a degree-granting program would provide. I'd also like a degree that can help me move from perpetual adjunct to (oh please, someday!) full time professor. I haven't heard from most of the schools I've applied to yet, but I have been accepted to Nebraska's program (yay! yay!). I'm high on the waiting list for funding, but as of now they can't offer me anything. If funding comes through, I'd be excited to attend and would consider it very seriously regardless of what happens with my literature apps.

 

So I'm curious, those of you who have applied to similar programs: where did you apply? what excites you about this degree or your top program(s)? and what worries you?

 

(I wasn't sure if this thread should go here or under Humanities/English, so I apologize if I chose poorly!)

 

 

[Post-It Poet]

I have an MFA in poetry and did 1-1/2 years of a Creative Writing PhD program (University of Missouri) before I realized that while I love writing (and still write poetry!), I didn't want a career in literature. I caught the public health bug and ended up going back for an MPH, and now I am applying to PhD programs for Public Health! One of the things I love about writing is that you can still publish and have a successful writing career without having to be in the academy. 

 

I know that doesn't have any relevance to your situation, but I wanted to say good luck! When I was in the PhD program, it was wonderful to have the extra time to write and work on my manuscript, post-MFA. 

[Squideesha]

I'm in the CW PhD application pool this year. So far, I've been accepted at Cincinnati. It's the first school I've heard from, out of six.

 

Excited, like you, by the idea of going on to a full-time academic teaching position rather than adjuncting. Excited to be with a group of creative people again. Excited to be in school again, actually. To teach, to learn.

 

Worried that this is a big time commitment. That the teaching job I'll get will be in nowheresville, far from interesting arts and culture. Or that, after all the years in the program, I'll just wind up adjuncting, anyway. Your thoughts?

[CastineGrrl]

Thank you, Post-It Poet, for your insights and well wishes, and congratulations on finding the right career to complement your writing life! Public health is a fascinating and important field. I am sure at this point that teaching/academia is where I want to be, but I agree (and thank goodness, really!) that writing can happen in any life context, and successfully.

 

Squideesha, a big and hearty congratulations on your Cincinnati acceptance!! Yay! If you don't mind my asking, what kind of funding were you offered?

 

Like both of you, I am excited to be in school again, learning and teaching and yes, writing and manuscripting. I, too, Squideesha, am worried about post-PhD job prospects. I would be happy teaching in a community college or lower tiered school after my studies (genuinely so), but my long-term location really does matter to me, and there are some places that are just too far from loved ones to be acceptable. I plan to work steadily to continue to publish and, ultimately, put a book out, present as often as possible at conferences, and take full advantage of my future program's career services. My hope is that steady work in all three areas will prepare me for the right job in the right place. I may be overly optimistic, but all poets are dreamers, right?

 

One of my other worries is that a creative writing PhD will not be taken seriously by future colleagues/departments I'd like to work in. It's something I keep hearing. But if my ambition is to teach writing, especially creative writing, I don't see why it shouldn't be looked on as further preparation for the job. Have you heard these rumors, too?

 

I hope we get more acceptances soon!!!

[Squideesha]

Thank you, and congrats, likewise, on your acceptance at Nebraska! Sounds like a solid program with fantastic faculty. Lincoln's a neat, progressive town. And their football games are something to be seen.

 

I haven't heard the rumors about the CW PhD not being taken seriously, but then, I don't intend to seek teaching jobs that don't have at least some CW component to them. Who told you this, and what were their reasons? Everyone I know who's gone through a top-tier CW PhD program has landed some sort of teaching gig that doesn't seem half bad. Many still complain about their jobs, but that seems to be a teacher's prerogative. But if you want to teach at Yale, that's another story.

 

As for funding, I don't really want to get into it on a public forum, but suffice it to say funding's included in the offer.

[CastineGrrl]

I'm glad funding is included--that's the bottom line! Yay! Hopefully Nebraska will come through with the same for me. And thanks for the good words about UNL and Lincoln; it seems like a really great program and a cool city. As soon as I hear about funding, I plan to visit.

 

I know poets with the CW PhD, and they're certainly taken seriously. I've encountered the attitude I was speaking of from a few of my former profesors and current colleagues who chose not to pursue the CW PhD. I've heard either that more doors will open for me with a "standard" English PhD or that my MFA plus books published should be enough, since the MFA is still techincally considered terminal. Nobody has told me not to pursue it, but I've been warned (I think lovingly) that some departments that require a PhD of job applicants look down on the CW degree as if it doesn't "count" because it doesn't look like the degrees held by the people who would be hiring me. The idea being that if I didn't have to go through the exact same hoops to get my degree as they did for theirs, my degree might be perceived as less than. The attitude, I think, grows out of the assumption that a manuscript of creative writing couldn't possibly be as rigorous or important to the field of English as a standard dissertation. I've also heard it insinuated that the CW PhD is superflous after an MFA or somehow indulgent.

 

Obviously I decided to apply for CW PhD programs anyway--and enthusastically. However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about some of these attitudes I've encountered. Whether or not my degree is respected, I will grow as a writer, learner, teacher, and person. I know this. But I'd also like it to be respected! I'm heartened by the fact that you haven't encountered these attitudes, Squideesha. Hopefully they're not as pervasive as I'd thought.

[Silas]

I think the "serious" factor you're talking about is the difference between a creative writing PhD and a lit PhD and what they each qualify you to do, rather than one actually being seen as more/less serious.  With the creative writing PhD, you won't be seen as a serious contender for TT jobs in literature, but you *will* be seen as a serious contender for TT jobs in creative writing.  If you want to teach creative writing (with the chance of sometimes teaching a comp class and/or a low-level literature class), get the cw PhD.  If you want to teach upper-division lit classes, get the lit PhD--with an MFA, publications (if you have them), and a lit PhD, you might be competitive for a job that has you teaching both, though that has its own unique set of challenges.

 

I'm applying for a PhD in creative writing this year, too, though in nonfiction.  I've been accepted at Nebraska, but am wait-listed for funding, and I was rejected by Texas Tech.  Still waiting to hear from Missouri and Ohio University.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Silas

[CastineGrrl]

Silas, I appreciate the clarity of your distinction between the programs and their respective career purposes. It's obvious now that some of my professors secretly wanted me to become versions of them--Lit professors--which is why they discouraged me from the CW PhD. Others were (are) against the CW PhD because it seems redundant to the MFA, a claim that has less power behind it now that more and more departments seek candidates with doctorates instead of simply "terminal degrees." Anyway, thank you. This thread has certainly made me feel less worried and more convinced by my choices and intuition.

 

And hey, congratulations on your Nebraska acceptance! Maybe we'll both end up there if funding comes through for us! I, too, am waiting on Ohio U, and the anticipation is killing me. I wish all programs had to report on the same date. Best of luck with your remaining notifications!

[uffdaok89]

I am interested in applying to PhD in Creative Writing programs for Fall of 2014. Does anyone know if you must have a Master's in English before applying for a PhD? I have a BA in English and will have a Masters in Education, but not an MA or MFA in English/CW. 

[bluecheese]

I am interested in applying to PhD in Creative Writing programs for Fall of 2014. Does anyone know if you must have a Master's in English before applying for a PhD? I have a BA in English and will have a Masters in Education, but not an MA or MFA in English/CW. 

 

If you apply to the PhD programs, you'll be competing against a lot of students who already have MFA degrees (and potentially impressive publication records). I'd go for an MFA first.

[TonyB]

From what I've heard, an MFA *should* qualify you for more than adjunct positions, provided said spots are available. (As others have mentioned, the market isn't exactly booming right now). Essentially, an MFA should qualify you for the full range of creative writing jobs, while a PhD would do the same for general English and Lit teaching posts.

 

As for getting an MA (or MFA) before applying to PhD programs... there are some schools, like Ohio State, that offer integrated programs. You get the MA after 2 years, the PhD after 5 (with optional funding for a sixth year). Most such programs have a foreign language requirement, whereas most MFA's do not. In general, a non-integrated PhD program will require that you have an MA (or MFA) before admitting you.