Low grade in a science class - effect?

[semicolon2013]

Hi all,

 

I am in my last semester of undergrad and need a few more science credits to graduate (distribution requirements).  I am in a non-major chemistry class right now and it is much harder than I expected.  I am currently getting a D+ in the class.  I think I can bring it up to a C, but getting anything higher than that will require a huge amount of effort for me because I just don't have the math foundations for the class.  It will also take time that I should be spending on my honors thesis.

 

My options are: stay in the class, work really hard, and probably get a C or withdraw and complete the last few credits over the summer at another school (no summer classes at mine).  This would cost money and would mean I will not officially graduate in May, although I can walk with my class.

 

What I would like to get a sense of is how much a low grade in a science class would effect my admissions to English PhD programs.  I realize the most important factors are writing sample, SOP, and LORs and admissions are impossible to predict, but has anyone had any experience with a situation like mine.  My current GPA is about a 3.8.

 

Thanks so much for any input.  Sorry if I seem uninformed.  

 

 

 

[Quantum Buckyball]

Oh goodness! a D+ in Chemistry!? Have you tried studying via flash cards or mnemonic technique? Both methods are really effective and helped me to get this far in life today.

[kayrabbit]

I don't think a C or a C+, if you could manage it, are going to look horrible to committees who are reviewing your transcript for admission into a program in English. Math and science will be absent from your graduate career, so if you have an otherwise strong record it would make little sense for a committee to hold some less-than-stellar science grades against you. The biggest downside is the effect it will have on your GPA. If you're in your senior year with a 3.8 though, you probably have enough credits at high grades that it wouldn't have a huge effect. Or do you have a change of grading basis option at your school that would allow you to switch to pass/no pass or satisfactory/unsatisfactory grading for the class? If you feel confident that you will be able to get up to a C/C+ that would keep it from lowering your GPA at least.

[semicolon2013]

Thanks for the responses.  

 

Quantum - the problem is my lacking math background, not the memorization.  I have not taken a math class since high school and was always terrible at it.

 

Is there anyone who has been in a similar situation?

[kaloskagathos]

I'm not an English applicant, but I had a very similar problem a while back.  I enrolled in a math class that I didn't put enough effort into (and wasn't very good at).  I was on track to get a C before family problems gave me the impetus to just withdraw.  Luckily, I didn't need it to graduate, so I didn't have to worry about retaking it.  Here are the steps I would recommend:

 

1) Find out what the passing grade is to complete your chemistry requirement. (You have probably already done that.)

 

2) Do the math to figure out what your GPA would be if you got that grade.

 

3) Decide if you can live with that.

 

I would be extremely hesitant to seriously lower your GPA for this if you can afford to retake it over the summer and think you will do better if you do.  I also like kayrabbit's suggestion to take it pass/fail —but only if you know you can get a passing grade.  However, if you really think it's your math background that is the problem, I'm not sure whether taking the class over the summer (which will inevitably be faster paced) will help you.  It's also possible that a class taken at a different university won't count toward the GPA on your home institution transcript, which would be a plus.  I know that's true at my college.

 

Have you talked to your English adviser(s) and your chem professor about this?  (Please don't feel embarrassed to ask humanities professors about this.  Most of them couldn't pass a chem class to save their lives.)

 

Oh, I should add that, although grad applications for my discipline aren't quite as high stakes as English (fewer applicants for one!), I was extremely successful this application cycle, even with that W on my transcript.

Edited February 28, 2013 by kaloskagathos

[jazzyd]

Fwiw, my GPA is lower than yours thanks to a semester and a half of engineering curriculum freshman year. I got a C in Chemistry and B in Chem Lab. I also got a W in a computer science class. As far as applications go, I think I'm in a pretty good spot. So it's not as if a poor grade puts you out of the running. I would work my ass off if I were you to get that C though.

[lovinliterature]

Hey, semicolon2013.  I second what everybody else has said, and I think you'll be fine.  My overall GPA from undergrad was 3.75, and I had two grades in the "C" range.  In fact, one of them was a C+ in yoga!  I was really upset, and I thought it would look like I'd skipped class all the time because, really, what do you have to do to get a C+ in yoga?!   (in my case, the answer was have a teacher who never took attendance and who, I am sure of it, mistook me for a girl with a similar name who looked similar who skipped class right and left . . . however, the teacher never answered any of my emails as to why I received my grade--(incidentally, the class grade was entirely based on attendance and participation--and since it was spring of my senior year, I then moved out of town).  Anyway, I had two grades in the "C" range (the other was in a music composition class, and frankly, my music just wasn't aurally pleasing), and I don't think it hurt me.  Right now, I have several offers, and one of them includes a 5 year presidential fellowship at a top 3 university.   English departments care much, much more about your overall GPA and your grades in your English classes.  I hope this gives you some ease of mind.  Good luck.

[Quantum Buckyball]

Thanks for the responses.  

 

Quantum - the problem is my lacking math background, not the memorization.  I have not taken a math class since high school and was always terrible at it.

 

Is there anyone who has been in a similar situation?

I think the most math you encountered in General Chem 1 or 2 are just college algebra.

Have you ever used Khan Academy (https://www.khanacademy.org/)? It's a youtube-like website that teaches you math/science/history/computer science classes for free. You could use that as a tool to help you with your chemistry homework or basic understandings.

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry

[Ategenos]

Hey, semicolon2013.  I second what everybody else has said, and I think you'll be fine.  My overall GPA from undergrad was 3.75, and I had two grades in the "C" range.  In fact, one of them was a C+ in yoga!  I was really upset, and I thought it would look like I'd skipped class all the time because, really, what do you have to do to get a C+ in yoga?!   (in my case, the answer was have a teacher who never took attendance and who, I am sure of it, mistook me for a girl with a similar name who looked similar who skipped class right and left . . . however, the teacher never answered any of my emails as to why I received my grade--(incidentally, the class grade was entirely based on attendance and participation--and since it was spring of my senior year, I then moved out of town).  Anyway, I had two grades in the "C" range (the other was in a music composition class, and frankly, my music just wasn't aurally pleasing), and I don't think it hurt me.  Right now, I have several offers, and one of them includes a 5 year presidential fellowship at a top 3 university.   English departments care much, much more about your overall GPA and your grades in your English classes.  I hope this gives you some ease of mind.  Good luck.

 

I agree with this sentiment... After all, we're still using psychoanalytic studies that are decades out of date, and all but mocked by the people who actually study this stuff - so I don't think any English department is going to cock a snook at some bad chemistry grades. ;P

 

On a more important note, a credited university class... in yoga? Please say it was an interdisciplinary course, looking at the history of yoga, psychological studies into its effectiveness, its representation in popular culture and/or literature... or part of some kind of sports science course, teaching future sports scientists how to do it. ;P

[egwynn]

semicolon: I would definitely pass/fail it.  I did that with a couple of my undergrad classes (math and science) and they didn't bring my GPA down.  (I found out later that I'd gotten an A- in both, which would have brought my GPA down, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.  Is it possible that your situation is also not as bad as you think once you factor in grade curves and the like?)

[semicolon2013]

Thanks everyone!  I am going to stay in the class and do my best, but (try) not to worry about it too much.

Lons - Pass/Fail is not possible for courses required for Distribution (general ed core requirements), which is the reason I am taking the course in the first place.

Quantum - I do not remember any algebra from high school and I was bad at it even then.  Thanks for the links though!

[asleepawake]

On a more important note, a credited university class... in yoga? Please say it was an interdisciplinary course, looking at the history of yoga, psychological studies into its effectiveness, its representation in popular culture and/or literature... or part of some kind of sports science course, teaching future sports scientists how to do it. ;P

 

You don't think physical education courses are legitimate college classes? Every school I've attended has had them, though they have often been worth only like 1 credit.

[kayrabbit]

Thanks for the responses.  

 

Quantum - the problem is my lacking math background, not the memorization.  I have not taken a math class since high school and was always terrible at it.

 

Is there anyone who has been in a similar situation?

Now that I've officially been admitted to a program, I'll also add that my C+ grades in calculus and chemistry did not keep me from receiving an offer. Those grades were, however, from my freshman and sophomore years, and my understanding is that admissions committees look much closer at grades from your last two years.

[Grev]

What I would like to get a sense of is how much a low grade in a science class would effect my admissions to English PhD programs.  I realize the most important factors are writing sample, SOP, and LORs and admissions are impossible to predict, but has anyone had any experience with a situation like mine.  My current GPA is about a 3.8.

 

I'd say your chances are still pretty good, even with a low science grade on your transcript.  I was a very confused undergrad and finished a very strong-in major GPA for Spanish (4.0+), and a mediocre in-major GPA for Math (~2.5).  No-one has ever asked about my math grades, or seemed to hold them against me since my grades were other wise fine and very strong in my specialization.  I'd say it hasn't seemed to affect my getting into MA or PhD programs nearly as much as research fit does.

 

I would, however, recommend getting a tutor if you can to help you take some of the stress out of passing the course.

[Ategenos]

You don't think physical education courses are legitimate college classes? Every school I've attended has had them, though they have often been worth only like 1 credit.

 

At university? I'm gonna say no. I don't judge people for taking them (I was an undergrad - easy credit!), but I'm a little surprised that the universities offer them. I reckon that sort of thing should be very much extra-curricular. Then again, I've done all of my university education (thus far) in Britain, and we obviously have a different view on these sort of things.

 

For example, one of the TA handbooks at the place I got into talked about giving people extensions for sporting commitments, whereas over here the lecturers/TAs would just say that it wasn't a good enough reason, and send you on your way... so yeah, different strokes for different folks.

[Two Espressos]

At university? I'm gonna say no. I don't judge people for taking them (I was an undergrad - easy credit!), but I'm a little surprised that the universities offer them. I reckon that sort of thing should be very much extra-curricular. Then again, I've done all of my university education (thus far) in Britain, and we obviously have a different view on these sort of things.

 

For example, one of the TA handbooks at the place I got into talked about giving people extensions for sporting commitments, whereas over here the lecturers/TAs would just say that it wasn't a good enough reason, and send you on your way... so yeah, different strokes for different folks.

 

I have one credit's worth of a physical education "class" on my transcript, but I largely agree with you.  Phys. ed. classes really shouldn't count for university credit.  Thankfully, I think the amount of credits you can actually take in these areas are limited to a small handful at most places.

[jazzyd]

I have one credit's worth of a physical education "class" on my transcript, but I largely agree with you.  Phys. ed. classes really shouldn't count for university credit.  Thankfully, I think the amount of credits you can actually take in these areas are limited to a small handful at most places.

 

The bolded above is why I see no problem offering them. The majority of physical education courses here (including non-major dance classes) are only worth 1 credit hour and do not satisfy a gen-ed. Meaning, a student is paying to take the course without receiving much of a benefit themselves besides pure enjoyment. Physical education courses that are more than 1 credit hour and satisfy gen-eds have non-P.E. portions whether it's learning about how the body works in motion, the cultural history of yoga or dance, etc. 

[ghijklmn]

At my school, we were required to take two semesters of physical education and pass a swim test to graduate. I took ballroom dancing and shiatsu massage.

[rawera]

At my school, we were required to pass a swim test to graduate. I took ballroom dancing and shiatsu massage.

 

Did you graduate from the Naval Academy or similar? I can't even fathom...

[Tweedledumb]

Semicolon2013: Have you considered getting your MA first? I had straight Cs in my required science courses as an undergrad, so my GPA was not stellar (like 3.33) but I was accepted into a Master's program where my GPA is now a 4.0. Spending the time to get the MA has been helpful and it helps pad my unfortunate BA grades. 

Edited March 28, 2013 by Bamboozeled

[semicolon2013]

I have thought about an MA but could only afford a fully funded program and I would prefer not to take the extra few years before the PhD.  However, I will apply to some MA programs as well as PhDs.  My overall GPA is not bad (will end being a little under 3.8 I think), but I am worried about this chem class.

[toasterazzi]

I didn't try for a PhD program the first time around, but I was able to get into a funded MA program with a couple Cs on my transcript. My overall undergrad GPA was 3.51. Since yours is higher, I figure you should be fine.

 

As for the PE discussion, my undergrad university required one semester of PE, which was like two or three days of the actual activity and one day of lecture (which was basically a Health class). I took rhythmic aerobics, but they also offered fitness walking, jogging, swimming, physical conditioning, and swimnastics. The school I'm at for my MA has a similar requirement for its undergrads.