I am a 2nd year undergrad. I have no idea what I want to do with my life. Help me.

[dmb1785]

Hey everyone,

 

I am currently a biology student at a medium size state school(research university, but not flagship). I always wanted to go into dentistry and practice, but now I'm not entirely sure what I want to do. I have started getting interest in academia. It's always been there at the back of my mind. I even considered teaching high school. I'm looking for some serious guidance. My situation is my own, and I just want any feedback possible. I posted this in the biology section, because I want to see if what I want to do is possible through this area of study.

 

So I am currently a 2nd year in undergrad(yes, I know most people my standing don't know what they want to do), I have done plenty, plenty of shadowing and volunteering in various health professions including pharmacy, medicine and dentistry. I know the ins and outs of the pre-____ life. I am a frequent user of SDN(studentdoctornetwork, for those of you familiar with the glorious monstrosity that is SDN). I like dentistry, and I can see myself being a dentist(I want to become an orthodontist or periodontist). I know about the Chronicle of higher ed, highered today and publications of the sort. I follow the latest news about local colleges and universities in my state. I eventually want to transfer to our flagship, not just because of the prestige and program offerings, but because I'm not very satisfied with what I have here or the campus/student life/people. My current school was my back-up from high school and that hasn't changed. 

 

I came across some practitioners who work part-time and lecture part-time. I would love a setup like this, but the truth is, I don't know if I'm that passionate about dentistry. I am passionate about helping students. I want to do that. I am very active on campus. I have started plenty of student organizations and served as an officer. In terms of research, I have done research in non-related fields. I am hoping to get accepted into a summer research program..maybe that way I can get more of an insight on what it is I want to do with my life. 

 

About biology, I really enjoy biology. I find it interesting, but i'm not sure if I find it interesting because I have only taken the intro series, the gen chem and organic chem sequences. I just don't know if I know, and I'm scared that it might be too late by the time I figure everything out. I'm not the smartest or the quickest or the most well-connected, but my planning skills usually put me well ahead of everyone else. I'm worried that I have lost one of my best strengths.

 

I guess what I'm asking for is general advice from people interested in biology. What would you do in my situation? One big concern I have about grad school is that I'm a people person. I don't want to be the anal academic. I like dentistry because it allows a great work-life balance. I want to be able to take some Fridays off and spend time with family and do things I want to do. I mainly want to go into academia to help students. I'm not even sure if I'm so passionate about research to do it all my life...I know to get tenure or make a decent living you have to be big on the grant proposals and funding acquisition. I'm not sure if I would be able to compete with PhDs. Medicine, dentistry, pharmacy all the health professions are very much routine. Only the education sets these fields apart from an accountant, teacher or banker. Ideally, I would love to be provost or dean. I want to work in educational law. I want to be the one who's there to look out for students when it counts. I want to be the guy who mediates faculty and the "politicians" that often run university systems. I want to work in alumni relations. I want to just be so dedicated to my university. I look at Gordon Gee(and yes, I know of his faults too) and I just go wow. The guy is so proactive and loved by everyone. I just want to do that for my school and help make an institution an even better place. The only way I can get here is through the ranks. I was banking on dental faculty to dean and so on, but, again, I'm skeptical about my passion for oral biology. With all the changes in healthcare, I'm just not so sure about the living either. 

 

I'm not sure where to go to be honest. How can I learn more about grad school? I honestly only know the rankings and that's it. What websites do you all use to research graduate life and studies? Also, this is a big one. What is the GPA/GRA averages like for STEM PhDs? I wonder if I'm even competitive. My GPA isn't great due to many factors. It isn't anything that I can't help though. I don't blame anyone but myself. 

 

I'm just a lost undergrad haha

 

Any advice?

Edited March 2, 2013 by dmb1785

[mop]

The number one thing to learn about grad school is to get involved in lab research, as soon as you can in a meaningful capacity (not just washing glassware). GPA and GRE are secondary to research experience, which should come first if you intend to go for graduate studies.

 

If you want to look out for students, that sounds more like a counseling postion, and getting a research degree (PhD) is not a very good path for that.

[dmb1785]

The thing is I don't want to become an advisor. I want to become a dean of a land-grant research university. I know that's a blunt and maybe even naive thing to say, but that is my goal. I look at Bernie Machen, president of University of Florida as my inspiration as a pre-dental student wanting to go that route. Plus, dentistry in itself has a whole world of academia. 

 

Research comes first before GPA and GRE? That's great news. How do ECs look? I am a founding officer of several clubs. I am also establishing an honors society. This is at a very high activity/research university designated institution. I am transferring to a better, bigger and more prestigious university(in same state), but given that, I think my ECs would look impressive. Would they?

 

In terms of research, I have done a lot of web design and database administration for people. I haven't been in the lab too much. I'm hoping the summer research program will change that.

 

When do most people get involved with research during undergrad? I mean competitive applicants? Am I behind? I would love to be one of those guys who get 4-6th author on a publish, but it may be too late for me? Also, are professors nepotistic? Will my current connections no longer help me when I transfer schools?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I just really want to get all my stuff in order...fast.

Edited March 2, 2013 by dmb1785

[VBD]

So, I was in a similar boat. I was in undergrad as a biology major but really wanted to keep the people person side of me happy. So I looked into other aspects, like bioethics (some law aspects of this program may interest you, esp with your interest in educational law), or public health (and dentistry public health is small but growing). There are probably other options, like counseling or therapy (ie. PT) positions that can also apply to your people side as well. To research my options as a lost freshman (or for you, sophomore), I talked to a lot of professors I like, I visited my universities' career center, etc. I went to many school websites, and I started asking peers' upperclassmen if they have people that I could talk to who for example were getting an MA in bioethics.

In regards to getting into a lab, perhaps you could look into doing clinical research? It's definitely not too late to get into research as a sophomore, and to start looking into other biology-related career options. Best of luck to you!

Edit: OP, since you posted a few minutes earlier than this post, I'll try to answer some of your new questions 
EC's look good for tranfers, but i'm not sure if they are really /that/ important for straight biology grad programs. I know some fields may look more favorably to that. 

Summer research is a great time to dive into it. Have you looked at REU's? They are geared specifically toward people who do not have previous extensive research experience. It's still possible to publish, but I feel like a more time-wise (and less stressful goal) goal would be to present a poster of the research (while simultaneously working on the paper for that project), of course with a willing PI. Professors aren't always nepotistic, but cold contacts are sometimes hard to break through. I got into my first molecular genetics lab though a person I met at a work study fair who said it was ok to use her name in the introduction of a cold-contact email to the PI. Regarding the question about current connections, that varies, and it depends with whom you have current connections.

Caveat: I'm a bio major who did straight biology lab work in molecular genetics and immunology before I switch to public health, so take my advice with a grain (or two) of salt.

Edited March 2, 2013 by VBD

[dmb1785]

Thank you so much VBD. I actually have looked into bioethics. I have done a lot of what you said actually. I always ask the admissions reps who come to my clubs how they got there and what they advise. I email too. 

 

Should I be considering law for what I want to do? Many JDs become presidents of universities(UNC, Columbia's Lee Bollinger etc) 

 

I am sort of interested in environmental science, ecology or similar fields. I see you're getting your PhD in that. Can you give me your story on how you decided on that? If you don't mind. I really, really appreciate it. I'm sorry if I come off as invasive. I'm going nuts to be honest. 

[VBD]

(BTW, you type really fast, in the time for me to do an edit of my previous post, you have another one )
 
I believe you can get into a position with that route, but from what I understand, that position is something that is wandered into. The president of my university's background was a PhD in secondary education. I know another friend's uni has a President with an MHA (Masters in Health Admin) but her school's more scienc-y, and my undergrad was like liberal art-y. There are probably others, but believe it or not, credentials of uni presidents don't come up often among my friends!

I personally am weary of law school since recent reports show that 50% of law school grads cannot find jobs and have a butt-load of debt to handle. I'm probably biased though, so you may want to ask actual law students, ok? They have healthcare law (with bioethics being a subset of that sometimes), environmental law, which may be in your interest. 

Ah, I don't mind. My story's a bit boring though. So freshman year, I was getting bored of my genetic research (interesting stuff and cool research just not for me) so I started looking around. There was a public health class my school offered for undergrads, so I just randomly enrolled in it sophomore fall and loved it. I still wanted to do research, so I went to an immunology lab that specialized in infectious disease (with public health-y applications), and ended up staying there the rest of UG and did my capstone (Sr year project) in that lab. Later for a bio elective, I took ecology lab and LOVED it so when I did my MPH, I simply made sure I studied under a professor who did environmental field sampling. This lab was perfect for me, I could do the genetic-y part (qpcr, ELISA, westerns, columns, etc.) and then also talk to the people who my research directly/indirectly affects. My crazy path did include a sizable detour in bioethics, and one random pre-law course XD I was a pretty confused UG but I had the best advisor who encouraged me to find other fields and I constantly went to school special seminars, fairs, etc to talk to many people about the field. I lucked out that random classes worked out for me (it does not always!). Let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything, since I'm probably boring people, haha.

[WhitH]

Ok, so. 

First of all, I agree that research experience is the most important thing for PhD programs in science. Then comes letters of recommendations, then GPA, then GRE. Unfortunately (or fortunately), unless your extracurriculars have something to do with science or academic honors, they don't care at all and I wouldn't put it on your application at all. Nepotism doesn't really exist in this field, so while your professors may be able to introduce you to some program directors or a couple of your interviewers, getting the interview will be completely up to you and you'll still have to impress all of you interviewers. Don't worry about not having publications, though they are very helpful if you can get them. I don't have any and I know plenty of people who don't either and had no problems getting into top schools. Focus on getting good letters of recommendations from people who know your potential as a scientist. Character references really don't count for much. It's definitely not too late to start getting research experience, but I would start ASAP, don't just rely on summer programs. Try to get some part time volunteer work with a professor with a lab a your university.

That being said the most important thing you can do now is find out if academic research is right for you. There are joint PhD DDS programs but they are long, I think 6-7 years, so you have to be sure. I would find a lab doing research that you think is the kind of thing you'd want to do and shoot an email to the PI asking if you can work in their lab over the summer. You'll probably want craniofacial labs. There are actually a few at U Penn that specifically are interested in teeth. Now, if you choose to get a PhD, you do not have to do academic research for the rest of your life if you don't want to. Many people go into pharmaceutical or biotech, many go to teach at small liberal arts colleges or even high schools, some go into consulting, and some go back to law school and go into patent law. There are plenty of avenues other than research to utilize your PhD. If you decide that getting a PhD isn't right for you, but you still want to become a dentist and stay in academia, you can do that too. There are plenty of DDSs that teach in dental school and probably even some teaching pre-dent students in undergrad. It also wouldn't be totally out there for a DDS to do craniofacial research, though I think that most do not want to. 

[dmb1785]

I love this forum..

 

Thanks for your advice everyone. So a few things I left out:

 

*I do regularly attend conferences and presentations. I go to law presentations, education presentations, science presentations etc. However, I never thought to network at these conferences. Like I said, I don't go to the best school in the world, and most of my peers are finding themselves in other ways. I feel like if I were to be the only undergrad in a room full of law students or PhD candidates, I would be the odd man out.

 

*I have applied to summer REU programs, but so far I have been rejected at one. I'm waiting on the other replies next week. The thing is, these programs only care about GPA..and my GPA isn't steller.  Most people I know who apply to these programs are pre-med/pre-dental gunners. I have applied to craniofacial programs at MUSC and SUNY Buffalo. If I'm rejected everywhere, I plan to start in a lab at my new school(I'm transferring for fall 2013). I will try to stay in that lab until graduation. If I'm still pre-dental, then it'll help for dental school and my career after that. If I want to go to grad school, then it will help me there.

 

*My ECs are all academic or somewhat related. I'm involved with a neuroscience club that hosts presentations posters of students, grad students and faculty, we talk about grad school applications and neuroscience in general. We have guest speakers and go on field trips to related sites. The other groups are pre-health organizations. I helped establish all three, so I feel it was a cool accomplishment that reveals my dedication to academia(?). Collectively, I "preside" over nearly 500 students at my school through these organizations. Other than that, I do the typical pre-dental volunteering/shadowing. I hope that can be somewhat used for grad school..maybe for applications?

 

So new questions:

 

1. VBD, my new school is actually a powerhouse for ecology/environmental science research. Any advice on how to break in? What should I say? I would be a brand new student at the school. 

 

2. In terms of using my current connections at my new school, how should I go about explaining to my former PIs and professors that I really hate where I am now? Isn't that offensive? I see myself saying, "Hey Dr. ____, so I'm transferring to _____ to major in the same major and I was wondering if you had any connections for me to use." I love the faculty and staff, but I have too many reasons for transfer to list. I just don't want to stay at my current school. I feel like I have hit my cap here. Nobody gets involved on campus, it is mainly a commuter school. The rankings/reputation is meh. The campus is dirty. It's just not an environment I enjoy. I know my new school well, and it's the place for me. 

 

3. Does anyone know any REU programs that DON'T require LoRs? I asked my two references to write about 6 letters. I know they mostly cut, copy and paste, but I feel bad asking them for more. They've both been awesome and supportive.

 

4. The way I'm going, I may need some more time to think. How do grad schools look on you taking an extra year to graduate? Maybe I'll double major or double minor in something I'm interested in. My current school has bio and chem and that's pretty much it. My new school will have at least 2-3 dozen science degrees to choose from and customize your curriculum from. I may just need an extra summer. Maybe I'll look into a BS/MS program. 

 

5. This question may be opening up a can of worms. It definitely does for pre-med, pre-dental and pre-pharmacy people. How is the market for grad students in biology? I know chemistry is nearing saturation and the humanities are top 10 or go home. I know the average salaries of professors, and I know that some can really make bank. I feel that everyone in grad school knows exactly what they're doing, and that it's harder to be competitive in grad school than it is even in med school. Everyone networks and does all that, so I guess what I'm wondering is after 6-8 years down the line...will I even be able to find a job? With all the changes in higher ed, I'm worried. I know every profession has this problem. Pharmacy is worse than law now and gets worse by the year as more schools open up and more graduates graduate. I know law's problem too.

[mop]

You could try volunteering for a professor over the summer (and continue in the school year if you don't transfer??) in their lab to get research experience, you don't need to join some official program. I've never done some official REU for a summor, just volunteered to work in a lab. Depending on the professor they most likely won't require letters. When I initially volunteered for a lab, all they wanted was a resume. I did need to contact several professors though, several had full labs and couldn't take on any undergrads. Just look up your faculty directory and email profs you are interested in.

 

There are jobs for bio phds, you just need to realize that not everyone gets tenure track, other people go into industry, teaching colleges, government etc

[dmb1785]

Well, I was hoping I would be able to get in a lab at new new school, not continue to work at my current school. Plus, I could take a filler summer class and get use to the campus and everything. 

 

Can anyone help with number 2? I'm going to start emailing professors and try to get my foot in the door at my new school.

[WhitH]

I also transfered from the undergrad I started in. I just never mentioned it and I never felt the need to explain it, no one ever really asked or seemed to care. But I guess you could just say it was for personal reasons, if they ask. 

[dmb1785]

aryelh, how did you transition in terms of labs? Did you transfer from a smaller school to a bigger school or vice versa? My main concern is not being able to break into the labs as soon as I get there. I'm already a sophomore and i have very little research exp. I need to get in there.

[WhitH]

i actually transfered from a big school to a small school. Basically I looked through the profiles of the professors with labs at my new school, picked ones I wanted to work with, and then tracked them down once I was on campus. If it makes you feel any better I got the majority of my research experience after undergrad. I took three years off to get a masters (masters is NOT necessary at all) and to get a tech job. I really only had one and a half years of lab experience in undergrad. I think that if you make yourself known to the profs you're interested in right away, get even just one academic year of lab experience, and fill you summers with research experience from now until you graduate you should be more than ok. What will really help is spending a significant amount of time (one summer full time or 1 academic year part time) in at least two different labs so you can  have at least 2 strong letters of recommendation from PIs who know you as a researcher. Also remember that the kind of research you do doesn't matter; you dont need to be doing something close to what you want to do in a PhD at all, so long as you can explain your role in the project and the science behind it is really all they care about.