Biostats masters program choice/questions about biostats industry

[APOCooter]

I'm stuck with a decision. And it's a pretty big one. I'll take advice from just about anyone, including strangers on the internet.

 

I applied to the masters program in biostatistics at the University of Michigan. It was a reach school. I wasn't really expecting to get in.

 

And then I did.

 

I really want to go.

 

It's really expensive.

 

Some background information: at this point, I'm really only interested in pursuing an MA and then finding a job in industry. I'm not ruling out an eventual PhD, but I have no interest in academia. I've also been accepted to a much less well known program (SUNY at Buffalo[and possibly Pitt, but SOPHAS is being dumb, so not likely]) that would be significantly cheaper (I would get in state tuition there).

 

So here are my thoughts: if I go to UM, I'm going to end up getting somewhere around $80,000 in additional student loan debt. However, I'll have a degree from a top 10 biostats program. If I go to Buffalo, I'll have significantly less debt. However, I won't have a degree from a top 10 program.

 

How important is the institution of a masters level degree in industry? Will it significantly affect possible starting salaries? Most biostatistician job postings I've seen say something along the lines of “PhD required, or Masters + X years experience.” Will only having a Masters significantly hinder my job search upon graduation? Or hinder me enough so that going to UM isn't worth it?

 

There are other, more qualitative reasons I want to go: I've only ever attended a small state school; I've never lived in a large city (I guess Ann Arbor isn't that large, but Detroit is); I've heard that Ann Arbor is just an amazing place to live. But ultimately, it's the financial side that gets the most weight. I'm trying very hard to convince myself that it's worth it, but man, that's a lot of money.

A tangentally related question: how transferable are statistics skills across fields? Say I get a masters in biostatistics and for whatever reason, biostatistics just doesn't work out. Would I still be a reasonable candidate for jobs that require experience in “statistics or related fields?”

 

Are there other considerations that I'm forgetting? Any other pros/cons?

 

Seriously, any sort of advice is appreciated.

[sisyphus1]

I would say UMich. Given your desire to go into industry, school brand name should be given weight. Yes 80K is a lot of debt, but starting salary for a Biostatistician is nearing 6 figures, so you should be able to pay it off relatively quickly.

 

Biostatistics is a (obviously) less flexible than statistics if you are interested in non-biomedial positions (finance, tech etc.), but it's not impossible to work at a non-biomedical company. I work in quantitative finance and in my team of statisticians there are a couple of biostatisticians.

[Shostakovich]

Also vote for Michigan. At least for me this would be a very easy decision. Even if going to Buffalo is completely free (which doesn't seem to be the case) I'd still be choosing Michigan. 80K is definitely a big investment, but the qualification and flexibility you would have coming out of Michigan will be just so much better than coming out of Buffalo. It is true that brand name matters less in industry as it does in academia, but in my opinion the perks of successfully coming out of Michigan should outweigh a 5-figure investment in the long run.

 

And also, there is a possibility that going to Michigan would ultimately cost you less than 80K if you could allocate a RA'ship once you get to Michigan (not sure how likely it is at Michigan, but I've been told that people have been successful at doing this in other top programs). The top programs have a lot of funding which they will allocate to students who have the skill set (which you will acquire after taking data analysis courses) so personally I would email some people at Michigan (faculty, current students, and administrative staff members) and find out what kind of funding opportunities you could run across while going through their program even if you enter without funding.

 

Hope this helps you in making your decision, and congrats on Michigan!

Edited March 3, 2013 by Shostakovich

[Biostat_Assistant_Prof]

Similar situation here, at least I was before visiting the other department. I have a fast track MS/PhD offer to UMich, but not funded... However, after visiting the department of a lower ranked school I'm considering (not unranked, but not top 10 either), if given a funded PhD offer (which seems likely given the conversations I had with the faculty on the admissions committee), I will be accepting it over an unfunded UMich.... I found that visiting was extremely important because I was blown away by the school. Every faculty member I talked with was awesome and with great research matching my interest. The grad students were extremely happy and their job placement after graduation was great.... I know it goes against the grain of what others are saying, but I think you should visit both before making a decision and get a feel for the education you would receive.

Again, my situation applies to a PhD and not MS, and it may be that an MS from a higher ranked program is worth the investment... But for PhD at least, while rank is important (especially for academic careers), the work you do while in school and your advisors/mentor(s) is just as important, and coupled with being fully funded vs unfunded in my case, the choice for me is obvious.

Regardless, good luck to you in making the decision.

[biostatdude]

Noco7: Did Michigan tell you that you won't be offered funding, or did you ask? And in your situation (funded PhD at lower-ranked program vs unfunded MS at higher-ranked program), I would also choose the funded PhD.   

[Biostat_Assistant_Prof]

Noco7: Did Michigan tell you that you won't be offered funding, or did you ask? And in your situation (funded PhD at lower-ranked program vs unfunded MS at higher-ranked program), I would also choose the funded PhD.   

 

I received the unfortunate letter in the mail on Friday evening. I was actually away at the mentioned campus visit at the time too and received the news from my parents (because I have my mail directed towards their house)... I was hopeful, but not all the surprised given my weaker math background.

 

And yeah, to reiterate, I am absolutely sure about the PhD offer vs the unfunded UMich offer. Everyone talks about "fit" when choosing a grad school and something about the department I visited fit me perfectly and I can easily see myself being very happy there... On top of that, I have no debt coming from undergrad and will have no debt after grad school if I take the funded PhD offer. Even if getting student loans to pay for UMich was feasible, I just can't rationalize taking on that much debt (coming from out of state) when I have other options preventing debt. 

[biostatdude]

I received the unfortunate letter in the mail on Friday evening. I was actually away at the mentioned campus visit at the time too and received the news from my parents (because I have my mail directed towards their house)... I was hopeful, but not all the surprised given my weaker math background.

 

And yeah, to reiterate, I am absolutely sure about the PhD offer vs the unfunded UMich offer. Everyone talks about "fit" when choosing a grad school and something about the department I visited fit me perfectly and I can easily see myself being very happy there... On top of that, I have no debt coming from undergrad and will have no debt after grad school if I take the funded PhD offer. Even if getting student loans to pay for UMich was feasible, I just can't rationalize taking on that much debt (coming from out of state) when I have other options preventing debt. 

 

Congrats, I'm glad to hear you found a great fit. I think "fit" is very important in a PhD program - you don't want to spend the next 5 years (or more) of your life at a place where you're unhappy.  

 

And thanks for sharing the unfortunate news about UMich... I haven't hear back from them yet about funding and hope to hear soon either way. I too have found a great fit, but am (anxiously) waiting to receive all offers before making a final decision.        

[Shostakovich]

I received the unfortunate letter in the mail on Friday evening. I was actually away at the mentioned campus visit at the time too and received the news from my parents (because I have my mail directed towards their house)... I was hopeful, but not all the surprised given my weaker math background.

 

And yeah, to reiterate, I am absolutely sure about the PhD offer vs the unfunded UMich offer. Everyone talks about "fit" when choosing a grad school and something about the department I visited fit me perfectly and I can easily see myself being very happy there... On top of that, I have no debt coming from undergrad and will have no debt after grad school if I take the funded PhD offer. Even if getting student loans to pay for UMich was feasible, I just can't rationalize taking on that much debt (coming from out of state) when I have other options preventing debt. 

 

Haha yeah funded PhD (tuition + living expenses) at a reputable institution would be very difficult to pass up for me as well. But in situations where I'd be in debt either way at the MS programs mentioned I personally wouldn't be able to justify not paying more for an opportunity at Michigan. That's just me though and I agree that considering other factors is important as it is a big decision.

[APOCooter]

I didn't get any response in the general forum, and I didn't want to start a new thread here.

 

I've been invited to attend the University of Michigan Biostatistics department open house.  Since I haven't been to the campus yet (I live about 8 hours away), I figured now might be a good time to check it out.  I have a few questions about what to expect, though.

 

Do students in the masters degree program often attend these sorts of things, or am I going to be surrounded by PhD admits?

 

What's appropriate dress?  I'm obviously not going to be wearing jeans and a t-shirt, but slacks and a tucked in dress shirt seems a little much, too.  Would jeans and a button down shirt be too casual?  Additionally, I have a full sleeve tattoo; is this something I should consider trying to completely cover up?

 

Also, I plan on asking the following questions:

 

 

What kind of statistics can you tell me about masters degree graduates? How many of them find jobs in the field after graduating? How many of them go on to a PhD program, either here or at another institution? For people who go into industry with a masters, do you have any salary or job quality information, or what areas they go into (clinical trials, statistical genetics, etc)?

 

For masters students who do not have an RA-ship, what kind of opportunities are there to gain real world experience that would make us attractive to future employers or PhD programs?

 

Is it possible to pick of special certifications along the way of completing the program (such as SAS programming certification, etc)? Is it possible to pick an area to specialize in as a masters degree student?

 

For students coming in without any financial assistance outside of loans, is it possible to be reconsidered for possible funding during the second year?

 

What percentage of students complete the program?

 

 

 

For students:

 

How effective are professors with communication? With regards to foreign professors, is it easy to understand them? I ask because I'm hearing impaired and I have a hard time with thick accents.

 

 

Student life:

 

How much free time do you have? Are you able to enjoy hobbies and interests outside of school? What about time for a part time job?

 

Are there programs available for relocating students to help them build a social and support network? Such as meet and greets, or can grad students join on campus clubs or organizations?

 

 

 

Are there any obvious questions that I'm forgetting?  Should I not ask any of those questions because they'll make me look like an idiot?

 

Thanks for the help!

[biostatguy]

To the OP,

 

This is a friendly advise coming from a person who has been working in the Pharma/Biotech industry for the past 6 years (with a Biostatistics/Programming role). To be honest with you, the school rank DOES NOT matter much in case of finding a job. It's not true that you will get 6 figure salary after getting out of graduate school with Masters and no relavant work experience. I have seen and interviewed many, many candidates myself and found that they were not even close to getting a Senior position (Senior positions MIGHT get a 6 figure salary depending on the location of the industry, but I doubt that would ever happen). So in my opinion, go for SUNY Buffalo, get a masters with minimum debt, find a decent job and pay off all your debt. I would recommend however, to look for internship as it might weigh much more in finding a job.

[outliers1]

I agree with biostatguy

I have been working in industry for 3 years now and I would say most fresh graduates from any Masters program would not just walk into his/her first job with the title "Biostatistician", even if they do, it is more a support role and its unlikely you will earn near to 100K in your first year.

[biostat_prof]

In my (highly ranked) department our MS students all seem to find jobs with minimal difficulty, and based on limited data the starting salaries typically range between about $60k and $80k. I don't know if this is true at lower-ranked schools. (For the record, I would not classify Michigan as a "lower-ranked" school.) I would try to get as much data as you can from faculty and current students about what types of jobs their MS students obtain after graduation and (if possible) information about starting salaries. My guess is that you will have an easier time getting a higher-paying job out of Michigan. Whether that is worth an additional $80k in debt I have no idea.