Applying to Bio (EEB, Animal Behavior) PhD programs - app/admissions questions!

[mutantmanifesto]

This is a cross-post from Applications, but I didn't even know there was a life sciences section. Whoops!

"I'm new here, so sorry if this is rambling/difficult.

I'm in my second semester of an MA program and Queens College (CUNY), a research thesis route. I'm part of an amazing lab and I'm doing a research project on swamp sparrow song development, which will [hopefully] be published we me as the first author. Spring 2014 will be my last semester, if I play my cards right. I'm hoping to apply for fall 2014 PhD programs in Biology, with an Ecology/Evolution/Behavior focus, which means apps out by the end of this year.

Here's what I got going for me:

My adviser will give me a stellar reference, and if this research gets a publication, it will be my 2nd (second author of a paper from undergrad). I also have two references from undergrad, as well as one from my boss who is a PhD in I believe genetics. My undergrad references are above and beyond, and have gotten me a great paying job and also admission into grad school. One of the professors who will be writing a recommendation for me just asked me to present/lecture to her undergraduate animal behavior class this month. Currently I have a 3.7, and I'm anticipating at least getting A-'s in the two classes I'm in now, so it will stay at 3.7 or go up. I don't plan on ever going below a B+ in any class I take. Maybe a lofty goal, but I think it's reasonable. I also have a conference presenatation under my belt from my undergrad research.

I have a BA in biology, and I finished with I think an iffy 3.2. And now the bad part: I took the GREs in 2009 twice. I really sincerely suck at standardized tests. My scores were: 450/580/4.0 and 430/560/4.0. I think that's quant/verbal/writing. That's the old scoring, right? Anyway, abysmal. I will be taking the test again this summer after taking a prep course, I am anticipating doing a lot better. I should note that during the time I was prepping for the two tests, I had just met my boyfriend (now of 4 years, goddamn) and I was in ~~~love~~~ so yeah, I'm planning on focusing a lot more this time around.

I am looking to apply to: UCLA, UC Davis, UT Austin, and a couple of higher tiers like Columbia and Cornell. I'm not banking on getting into the last two. Right now, there is a lab at UCLA that is studying what I'm interested it (canine evolution). I contact the head of the lab, laying out my interests and talking about some of his research. His email back was short, but said, "I am going to be taking students in Fall 2014, and I encourage you to apply." Verbatim. I'm taking that as a positive response. A couple of labs at Columbia have gotten back to me saying I don't fit, so I know what negative responses look like.

A couple of questions:

-If I'm applying for Fall 2014, and I'm not technically done with my degree until Spring/summer 2014, what do I say? I forget how this worked when I was applying to graduate schools last time. Do I explain how the rest of the schooling will play out (ie how many credits I have left/when I anticipate finishing?). How my next year plays out is: summer 2013 6 credits, fall 2013 6 credits, winter 2013 3 credits. Apply by the winter. After the application goes in, Spring 2014: 6 credits (3 being research, 3 being class credits). I'm hoping to also finish up my thesis in Spring 2014, but it may extend to Summer 2014. Either way, I will be done by the Fall 2014 semester. That all sounds sort of confusing, sorry.

-If I have my sights set on schools like UCLA and UC Davis, for example, what GRE scores should I be looking at? Obviously I'm going to try to up my scores significantly, but I'm terribly afraid of bombing again.

-If schools say a subject bio gre is "recommended" by not required, in my situation, would it really hurt me not to take them? I want to focus on the general test and get my scores up, however long that may take me. I have a feeling that by December of this year I won't be able to master the material for both the general and the subject, and I know the general is much more important.

-What else should I be doing, if anything? I feel like I'm doing everything I can, but I'd really appreciate any other tips on how to beef up what will be my application.

-How doomed am I?!

Thanks guys!!"

Edited March 3, 2013 by mutantmanifesto

[zabius]

Hi! Nice to meet someone else who's into EEB (I'm an arthropod behavior/evolution guy). I can't answer all of your questions as well as you might desire, but I'll try.

 

It's perfectly normal to submit your PhD applications before you've finished your MS degree. Many people do this, just as many people apply to MS programs while still in their last year of undergrad. Most applications will ask you for your "anticipated graduation date," which you can list as Spring or Summer 2014. As long as you will have graduated prior to the start of the PhD program, you're good. If you graduate in the summer, you might find that the school which you decide to attend will want final transcripts (showing your MS degree completion) sent to them before you're technically finished. If this is the case, you can probably just email the school and explain your circumstances... they'll likely grant you an extension and ask you to send the transcript as soon as it's available. Some schools might give you a conditional acceptance (i.e. they accept you, but will rescind the offer if you don't finish your previous program by the fall).

 

I don't know what GRE scores are good for UCLA/Davis, as I have not applied there. Most programs have a minimum GRE score that they'll accept, and some programs will even publish this on their website. Honestly, the GRE isn't usually *that* important as long as you score above the program's minimum. In that case, the other parts of your application (specifically the statement of purpose, letters of recommendation, and research experience) are the most important. GREs and GPAs, in contrast, are mostly used to sort out bad applicants from the rest very early on in the process. Still, try to score as high as you can... any advantage (however slight) you have over the other applicants helps!

 

I never took the subject GRE. A lot of programs "recommend" it, but unless it's required, I'd say that you can probably skip it. However, you should ask someone else about this, as I have little experience here. Most of the programs that I applied to simply called it "optional" or didn't say anything about it at all. The one time that I think it would be a good idea to take a subject GRE is when an applicant has a weak background in the subject area (e.g. because they've recently changed interests, etc.). If you already have a strong background in biology via coursework and whatnot, then you probably don't need a subject GRE to validate that... your transcript will speak for itself. You sound like you fall into the latter category, so you can probably get by without the subject test. But, again, this is just my take on it.

 

It sounds like you're doing everything that you need to right now. Your GPA is good and it sounds like you have solid research experience as well. I'd work very hard on trying to get that publication out as soon as you can. Even if it's just "in review" by the time that you send in your applications, it will look really good. Of course, if it's not ready by then, you should at least mention in your SOP that you are preparing to publish. You also have good letter writers lined up, which is great. Make sure to stay in contact with those people so that you're fresh in their minds when they write for you later this year. And do keep in touch with your POIs as well. Right now, many of them are preoccupied with choosing students for the Fall 2013 season, so they're likely too busy to talk at length with 2014 applicants at the moment. That's probably why the response you received from the guy at UCLA was on the short side. He seems interested, though, so stay in touch with him closer to your own application season. Perhaps send your POIs another round of emails in the summer, reiterating your interest in the program and updating them on your progress. Also don't hesitate to ask them questions if they arise.

 

Also, do not immediately assume a rejection from your "top tier" schools. It's all about research fit more than it is about GREs and whatnot. I went to Cornell as an undergrad, and I think that you would have a chance there (depending, of course, on research fit, your POI's funding situation, and the size of the applicant pool).

 

Not doomed at all, I think. Good luck!

Edited March 3, 2013 by zabius

[mutantmanifesto]

So, so helpful!! Thank you SO much! Whenever it comes to applying for anything, I obsess immediately and feel the need to figure everything out way in advance. Not a bad trait in this case, actually. I like your take on the subject GRE, and I actually have a feeling what you said is probably totally true. Also, thanks for the nice words about the top tier school! That actually made me feel a lot better. Seriously, thanks so much. You helped a random Internet stranger a whole lot

[zabius]

No problem! I'm the obsessive type too, so I can definitely relate. And it's definitely good to be thinking about this sort of thing early. Good luck with your research and applications!

[sciatrix]

Hey, another EEB/behavior person! Good to see more of us around. I'm currently a first-year at UT Austin, so if you have any questions specific to that program I'd be happy to help. Zabius' advice is generally pretty much what I was going to say, so I won't repeat it again. I also didn't bother taking GRE subject tests at all, and I don't think that counted against me at any of the programs I applied to (including Cornell, UC Davis and UT), so I wouldn't worry about it. In fact, no one even asked me about it. I'm pretty sure a Master's in biology will be enough to demonstrate that you know your stuff. 

 

Your CV looks really solid aside from the GRE stuff to me, and I agree that most programs really do not care much about GRE as long as it passes a certain cutoff. When I was applying and interviewing, I really found that fit and talking to prospective PIs ahead of time about my interests and their work were the thing that either worked for me or against me. Past a baseline level of qualification, which you look like you're at to me, a lot of getting acceptances at grad school is about finding a lab that your interests and personality fit neatly into. As far as I can tell, you're not doomed at all--you're a solid candidate and well ahead of the game. Follow Zabius' advice and check in occasionally with your prospective PIs and the people who are writing you letters and you should be fine. I cannot emphasize this hard enough--getting into these programs is really all about finding a PI who is excited about your interests and who you are excited to work with. Most of them don't do rotations, so you'll be admitted to a particular lab. You want to make sure that a) the lab that you want to join wants to have you too and b ) that it's a good match for your interests. 

 

One warning about Davis--when I interviewed there, they told me the Animal Behavior graduate group cannot guarantee funding for its students and that the grad students there need to secure their own TAships through applications. They said this was because the graduate group isn't formally affiliated with a department (the way, say, the Psychology graduate group is) and so they can't set classes aside for AB TAs. That put me right off the program and immediately dropped it to last place on my priority list, personally. I don't know whether their financial situation has changed any in the intervening year, but I thought I'd pass that tidbit along in case you hadn't heard. 

Edited March 13, 2013 by sciatrix