NYU & TC Columbia MA in Gen Psy suck?

[yoosirname]

Hi,

 

I ultimately want to get into a Ph.D. program in clinical psychology that follows the clinical science model. I  did a BA in psy from a top 50 school. I applied to 10 clinical psychology PhD programs this time around, but only got 1 interview at a top 15 program and am now wait listed. 

I've been accepted to both NYU and Teacher's College Columbia's MA programs in psychology, and am also waiting to hear back from BU, SBU, and U Buffalo as well.

 

I am writing to ask this:

 

I have read some negative things posted on Student Doctor Network Forum about NYU and TC MA as programs where MA students receive little attention from faculty, that the programs are disorganized, and that they are basically ploys to generate money to fund PhD students.

This is disconcerting to me because I want to do an MA in Psy to bolster my research experience. Preferably, I'd like to get faculty advisement, do a thesis that gets published in a well-respected journal, and complete rigorous coursework (esp. in research methods & stats) as well as have access to a community of serious researchers that can help me to hone my research ideas. 

 

Anyone have experience with these programs? Would I be able to get the aforementioned from them, or do they really suck at making people more competitive for clin psy PhD programs?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[earl.palamino]

i am sure they do not totally SUCK.  but masters programs do not ever give you the access to mentorship and research that phd programs give you. there is a really limited amount of advantage that masters programs provide. if you have no background in psych, than a masters program me be necessary.  if you have a BA in psych, then you should pursue a research position for a year or two.  get a job in  the field and prove/test yourself.  do not go for a masters.  it's a waste of time if you have a BA.

[Guest |||]

Masters aren't always terrible, all that said.

 

 

I know individuals who entered programs that lead directly to a ph.d in the university.

 

The masters are fully funded + stipend to live off, then enter the ph.d fully funded + stipend.

 

You might come out with a chance of having worked in more labs, more pubs, etc etc.

 

Id say in this case, its not all bad.

 

 

 

 

But if youre paying for the masters, and will need to apply again later on... well... if you can, avoid it.

[PsychGirl1]

i am sure they do not totally SUCK.  but masters programs do not ever give you the access to mentorship and research that phd programs give you. there is a really limited amount of advantage that masters programs provide. if you have no background in psych, than a masters program me be necessary.  if you have a BA in psych, then you should pursue a research position for a year or two.  get a job in  the field and prove/test yourself.  do not go for a masters.  it's a waste of time if you have a BA.

 

False. Probably true for the 1-year MA programs, but I'm finishing up a 2-year MS program that is mentor-based, research-based, and was invaluable in getting me into a great PhD program for next fall. My program is tuition based and I chose it over another funded MS program because I liked it so much more and felt it gave me more opportunities. They're out there, but I'm not sure from what I've heard that Columbia or NYU are those types of programs.

[earl.palamino]

False. Probably true for the 1-year MA programs, but I'm finishing up a 2-year MS program that is mentor-based, research-based, and was invaluable in getting me into a great PhD program for next fall. My program is tuition based and I chose it over another funded MS program because I liked it so much more and felt it gave me more opportunities. They're out there, but I'm not sure from what I've heard that Columbia or NYU are those types of programs.

is your program in new york?  i doubt it.  the programs in new york are profit centers.  if you need them because you do not have a background in psych, then they are useful.  but they are expensive, and when weighed out in pro and con fashion, they do not make sense for someone with a good foundational BA in psych, as i said.

[RubyBright]

is your program in new york?  i doubt it.  the programs in new york are profit centers.  if you need them because you do not have a background in psych, then they are useful.  but they are expensive, and when weighed out in pro and con fashion, they do not make sense for someone with a good foundational BA in psych, as i said.

 

You weren't talking about New York, earl.palomino. You said that master's programs "do not ever give you the access to mentorship and research that phd programs give you." I understand that you're talking about the OP's schools, but it's important to note for his/her future applications that not all master's programs are created the same. I agree with PsychGirl1, that some master's programs are both respectable and useful. Personally, I'm considering a partially-funded master's program that can lead into a PhD at the same school (of course, I'm not in clinical pscyh, like the OP).

As for NYU and TC Columbia, I have no experience with their reputation. Have you tried talking directly to professors and current students in the program, though? If there is some flaw in your application (i.e., GPA), considering a master's may be useful, though not necessarily one from the programs you were admitted to during this round. Good luck!

[earl.palamino]

You weren't talking about New York, earl.palomino. You said that master's programs "do not ever give you the access to mentorship and research that phd programs give you." I understand that you're talking about the OP's schools, but it's important to note for his/her future applications that not all master's programs are created the same. I agree with PsychGirl1, that some master's programs are both respectable and useful. Personally, I'm considering a partially-funded master's program that can lead into a PhD at the same school (of course, I'm not in clinical pscyh, like the OP).

As for NYU and TC Columbia, I have no experience with their reputation. Have you tried talking directly to professors and current students in the program, though? If there is some flaw in your application (i.e., GPA), considering a master's may be useful, though not necessarily one from the programs you were admitted to during this round. Good luck!

oops, sorry poopie.

[stereopticons]

There are many, many threads with the "should I get a master's degree?!" debate. Some people say they are not useful if you already have a background in psych. Others disagree.

 

I don't know much about either the NYU or Columbia programs, but I do know that it is entirely possible to get a LOT out of your master's degree experience. And this includes mentorship and research. This is especially true if the program is small.

 

If you are concerned about these two programs specifically, I might suggest contacting people who are currently in either program and asking them what THEY think about the program. That will probably give you better insight into what benefits the programs might provide.

[sdt13]

One of my professors suggested that if you're going to get a masters before re-applying, then you are better off going with prestige. In my experience, one of my advisors told me that going somewhere like NYU or Columbia for a masters would be better than going to the University of Essex (I chose this program because the program focuses on research and the POI and I have very similar interests...she also works closely with my advisor, as she got her PhD at my undergrad school). Despite that research match, he still recommended places like NYU or Columbia for my situation.

 

[PsychGirl1]

One of my professors suggested that if you're going to get a masters before re-applying, then you are better off going with prestige. In my experience, one of my advisors told me that going somewhere like NYU or Columbia for a masters would be better than going to the University of Essex (I chose this program because the program focuses on research and the POI and I have very similar interests...she also works closely with my advisor, as she got her PhD at my undergrad school). Despite that research match, he still recommended places like NYU or Columbia for my situation.

 

 

I think, honestly, that it's better to go with someone well-known in your field... they will likely have a stronger impact when you're applying to work with people in the same field for your PhD, as opposed to just the name of the school/program. That was my experience when I was applying- most research areas are so small that everybody knows each other, and coming from "so-and-so's lab" can make a difference.

[yoosirname]

Thank you so much, everyone, for the informative responses! 

 

I actually have reached out to students and faculty at NYU and Columbia. I have received mixed feedback about NYU so far, and will be speaking with someone from Columbia tomorrow. I have received consistent feedback that you make the most of your experiences by being proactive and that the most important experiences provided by the NYU MA are the research experiences (e.g., working in labs, connections to other faculty/labs outside the university). 

 

I just received an offer from Stony Brook as well, and I think this program might fit better with the experience that I am looking for (plus it's a bonus that it's ranked among top clin psy programs in the nation). Admissions told me that the four faculty that I am interested in working with are all open to working with me, they are accepting 15 incoming students (as compared to over 100 in the cases of NYU and Columbia), and all the classes are taught by full-time faculty members and are the same courses offered to Ph.D. students. I am waiting to hear back about a student that I can talk to about SBU's MA in psy. 

 

The other option I am considering is taking another year off to work in a lab with a professor here at the University of Exeter in England (not well known in the states, I believe. I haven't heard of it!) who is a prominent researcher in rumination (what I'm most passionate about). Psychgirl1, I think you are right about working with someone who has similar research interests and that's well-known in the field instead of just going for prestige of school name. I've heard this from multiple people (current and former Ph.D. grads) in the field of psychology.

 

If you all were me, would you choose to do the 1yr SBU MA program (with potential to work with multiple faculty whose work I find pretty interesting) or work with the University of Exeter rumination guy (very very excited about this research) for a year before re-applying to Ph.D. programs in clinical psychology?

 

I have a background in psy. GPA 3.83 from top 50 school, over 2 years research experience in behavioral sciences (mostly social psychology, though), undergrad thesis (in political psychology) published in competitive undergrad journal, one presentation. Currently volunteering in emotions and development lab at University College London. 

 

Thank you again! 

 

[PsychGirl1]

I was really excited about the SBU program until you mentioned that it was an MA program and only one year. Do you not do a thesis? Personally, I don't understand 1-year programs, as you have to apply for PhD programs only about 2-3 months after you arrive... how is that going to help your CV, LORs, etc.? The same could be said about the lab in England, though.

 

Since I'm not a huge fan of either option, I'd say working in the lab is the safer choice, and I'd try to start in May or June so that come November, he'll be able to write you a stronger LOR.

[earl.palamino]

Stony Brook is an awesome opportunity.  And CHEAP compared to NYU.  Either way, lab work or Stony Brook and you'll be on the right track.  Better than an MA from NYU or Columbia.

[JungWild&Free]

It does sound like Stony Brook fits more with a research-based focus and a mentor model.  But I would ask all programs how many students they funnel into PhD programs if you want to ultimately want to go that route.  Also, you can ask about the likelihood of you entering the PhD program at SBU at some point if you want to finish there. If you can't continue there, I agree that it might be hard to get a strong rec from them by the time you're gearing up to apply since it's only a year-long program.  In terms of the ROI of the MA, I've heard that some masters programs for psych (probably those with less of a research/mentorship focus) are not that helpful if you already have BA in psych, but that some programs can elevate your application, and have a strong reputation for passing a lot of people into Doctoral programs (probably the other types of programs people have pointed out).

 

I chose to lab manage instead of going for a MA and it served me well when I reapplied, and got me a great LOR.  I think that, in general, people in the US know more about specific scholars overseas than they do about school reputations so it's hard to .  If the guy you would be working with is relatively well-known in your area and you are really into his research, I think that could be just as valuable an experience to you as a MA. 

Edited March 28, 2013 by JungWild&Free

[yoosirname]

Thanks, earl.palamino & JungWild&Free! Have any more thoughts on new developments below? 

PsychGirl1, Stony Brook is 1 year, but you take courses over two summer sessions as well (one in the start, and one at the end). You can do a thesis there too, which I plan to. All the mentors have also said that I could be involved starting in the summer, and could either do my own project, or collaborate with senior graduate students (depends on what's viable given the time and type of study I'd like to do). 

 

I was also accepted to U Buffalo's MA too, which is strictly mentor-based and a 2 year program. I spoke with the mentor, and his research is perfectly in line with what I want to study. He basically treats his MA students like PhD students. 

 

Both Stony Brook and U Buffalo have accepted PhD students from their MA program, but there is no guarantee, which is perfectly understandable as it depends on funding, applicant pool, etc. 

 

In the event that this professor doesn't get back to me, I think I'd go for SBU or U Buffalo, my question is now:

 

Which one do you think is more attractive?

 

Both programs offer a collaborative environment, lab meetings, brown bags, honors theses/independent work, advisement from faculty, teaching from faculty, classes with PhD students (class size 5-25) & have accepted MA students to their PhD programs in the past. 

 

SBU Pros:

• 3 potential advisors/labs
• Exposure/training in methods/designs that I have no experience with yet that could be useful for future research (e.g., fMRI, EEG, longitudinal) 
• 1 year (2 semesters, 2 summer sessions) 
• Ranked #11 Clin Psy PhD program
• PhD program follows the clinical science model (which is the type that I'd like to get training in because you have training in both research and applied practice)
• Very responsive and helpful advisor (also a full-time faculty member)

 

SBU Cons:

• Larger labs, so I might not see an advisor every week (one told me it's every 2 weeks), and might work more closely with post docs or senior PhD students

 

 

U Buffalo Pros: 

• Follows mentorship model
• The faculty member I would be working with will only has 2 MA students and 3-4 PhD students. He meets with students weekly and treats them the same in discussing ideas/analyses.
• Potential for MA defense.
• Faculty has tons of articles with students as first authors. 

 

U Buffalo Cons: 

• Only 1 faculty whose research I am interested in.
• 2 year
• PhD program ranked #42, and is not clinical science model, so I would most likely not want to go into this PhD program 
• Phone conversation with professor, and e-mail exchange with one of his MA students was pretty awkward. I just feel like we didn't click that well in terms of personality, but this might not really be that important since our research interests align.

 

I'm waiting to hear from that professor in England as well...

 

Any perspective you can offer is greatly appreciated. You've all been so helpful. Thank you so much!

 

Edited April 3, 2013 by yoosirname

[PsychGirl1]

Honestly, at some point you just have to decide for yourself. Go with your gut.

[stereopticons]

Honestly, at some point you just have to decide for yourself. Go with your gut.

 

This. You've already made the list of pros and cons. I'm not sure how much more we can help you.

[juilletmercredi]

Stony Brook definitely sounds like a better fit for you.  The only downside is that it's only 1 year - so when you apply to grad schol you will only be 5 months into the program, and your recommenders won't know you that well from there.

[yoosirname]

Thanks, all.