What would you do?

[NeuroTU]

Need non biased advice on picking between 2 programs for Neuro PhD. Thanks!

Choice A:

 

1. Top 50 institution 

2. Top 20 in field of interest for PhD

3, Went there for undergraduate and masters (so wary of staying too long, definitely would leave for post doc)

4. Know PI very well and like very well

5. PI very well funded

6. Love city and have a lot of friends here

7. Has research I'm knowledgeable in and I could finish in 4 years

8. smaller to medium small size program

 

Choice B:

 

1. Top 50 institution

2. Top 10 (if even, top 5)  in field of interest for PhD (but not expertise, new field for me)

3. New school in new city (close to beach!) (adventure?)

4. Finish in more like 5-6 years

5. PI not locked down, plenty of labs in field of interest but not one I've locked in on

6. Facilities beautiful and very state of the art 

7. Small to medium size program

8. Good sports!

 

 

Feel free to ask questions but I need advice. Left off names to avoid name bias as both are very well known. 

[zabius]

Based on the info that you've provided, I'd go with School B, for a couple of reasons:

 

1. I'd be wary of doing a PhD at the same school that you did your undergrad *and* master's at. You've already been enrolled there for 5-6 years most likely, and in that time you've probably taken away all that you can from the department and the university as a whole (in terms of course offerings, making professional connections, learning research techniques, etc.). Does School A really have anything more that it can offer you? It might, but probably not that much. My undergrad department has a strict policy of not accepting its undergrads into its graduate program for this very reason. I'd bet that you would benefit a lot more from a new school... you'll be exposed to different perspectives, expand your academic network through professors in a new department (and the connections that they may have elsewhere), and may be able to take courses in subjects not offered at your old school. You'd probably learn a lot there, and it would probably also look better to have more than one school on your CV.

 

2. Both schools sound like they're in great areas, with good facilities and similarly-sized programs... so obviously they're both good choices that are similar in a lot of ways. But School B is better ranked in your field (top 5ish vs. top 20ish), and so a degree from B could be really advantageous when you're out looking for postdocs/jobs after graduation. Check the job placement stats from both schools; I'd bet that both have excellent records, but B might be slightly better at placing its graduates in highly ranked institutions.

 

3. School B has several labs in your field of interest, which is really ideal. If you run into irreconcilable problems with your advisor there (it happens, unfortunately), you'd likely be able to switch over to one of those other labs and continue your research there. With several labs focusing on your specific area of study, you might also have good opportunities for collaborations at School B.

 

I know it's tempting to stay in a school and city that you're familiar with and where a lot of your friends are... but School B sounds like the better option academically. Moving to a new area can be daunting, but you'll probably get used to it rather quickly (and like you said, it could be a fun adventure of sorts). And if you make yourself available, you'll be able to make new friends anywhere. Also, 5 years is a pretty standard length for a PhD program in a biological science, so don't let that deter you from School B.

 

That said... what's the funding like at School B? You say that your POI at A is well funded, but didn't say anything about the funding possibilities at B. If funding is not guaranteed at B, then I'd be inclined to recommend school A instead. There's no reason to go into debt for a doctoral program, especially in neuroscience (a field which typically offers its students full funding packages) and especially if you have another offer that is funded. But if School B is offering you money and it's enough to live on in that area, I'd say go for B.

Edited March 28, 2013 by zabius

[really]

I agree on all points raised by zabius. Well said. 

 

To stress this point, I'd say going to a different school for your PhD

1) provides a lot of growth potential in learning and new perspectives, especially in neuroscience where there are so many subfields and techniques and each school only has good representation in a handful of those,

2) vastly expands your networking capability,

3) lets you see the world a bit more and differently than you're used to by being somewhere new (personal growth - I value it, but maybe you don't as much)

 

From the rankings of A and B (and that you're looking at Neuro programs), it sounds like you would be well funded either way, so I would go with B.

[khaled]

Based on the info that you've provided, I'd go with School B, for a couple of reasons:

 

1. I'd be wary of doing a PhD at the same school that you did your undergrad *and* master's at. You've already been enrolled there for 5-6 years most likely, and in that time you've probably taken away all that you can from the department and the university as a whole (in terms of course offerings, making professional connections, learning research techniques, etc.). Does School A really have anything more that it can offer you? It might, but probably not that much. My undergrad department has a strict policy of not accepting its undergrads into its graduate program for this very reason. I'd bet that you would benefit a lot more from a new school... you'll be exposed to different perspectives, expand your academic network through professors in a new department (and the connections that they may have elsewhere), and may be able to take courses in subjects not offered at your old school. You'd probably learn a lot there, and it would probably also look better to have more than one school on your CV.

 

2. Both schools sound like they're in great areas, with good facilities and similarly-sized programs... so obviously they're both good choices that are similar in a lot of ways. But School B is better ranked in your field (top 5ish vs. top 20ish), and so a degree from B could be really advantageous when you're out looking for postdocs/jobs after graduation. Check the job placement stats from both schools; I'd bet that both have excellent records, but B might be slightly better at placing its graduates in highly ranked institutions.

 

3. School B has several labs in your field of interest, which is really ideal. If you run into irreconcilable problems with your advisor there (it happens, unfortunately), you'd likely be able to switch over to one of those other labs and continue your research there. With several labs focusing on your specific area of study, you might also have good opportunities for collaborations at School B.

 

I know it's tempting to stay in a school and city that you're familiar with and where a lot of your friends are... but School B sounds like the better option academically. Moving to a new area can be daunting, but you'll probably get used to it rather quickly (and like you said, it could be a fun adventure of sorts). And if you make yourself available, you'll be able to make new friends anywhere. Also, 5 years is a pretty standard length for a PhD program in a biological science, so don't let that deter you from School B.

 

That said... what's the funding like at School B? You say that your POI at A is well funded, but didn't say anything about the funding possibilities at B. If funding is not guaranteed at B, then I'd be inclined to recommend school A instead. There's no reason to go into debt for a doctoral program, especially in neuroscience (a field which typically offers its students full funding packages) and especially if you have another offer that is funded. But if School B is offering you money and it's enough to live on in that area, I'd say go for B.

 

I totally agree with zabius. One more thing, I don't see finishing your PhD in 5-6 years at school B a waste of time. You will get exposed to a better department, a new city, and a new life experience. If I where you, I'd definitely go to school B.  IMHO, having a better school for your PhD gives a good indication because basically "upgraded" to a better department. 

 

I think what's holding you from school B is that you prefer not to "adjust" to a new place compared to a place where you know everyone, in addition to the extra 1-2 years that you are going to spend. You don't need to worry much about these things because once you arrive, a new experience/exposure is waiting for you

Edited March 28, 2013 by khaled

[NeuroTU]

Thanks for the candid responses! At Choice B MY funding would be guaranteed for all 5-6 years. The dept is also very well funded. It's just not similar to what I studied at Choice A so I'm wary.

 

Things holding me back:

Love School A

PI is pretty well known in field

Not sure who I could/would work with at School B freaks me out 

 

 

I'll just have to meditate on it!

[selecttext]

3, Went there for undergraduate and masters (so wary of staying too long, definitely would leave for post doc)

4. Know PI very well and like very well

 

are the reasons why you shouldn't stay. i am surprised that the PI hasn't suggested you go elsewhere...

[NeuroTU]

We've discussed it. 

[zabius]

Thanks for the candid responses! At Choice B MY funding would be guaranteed for all 5-6 years. The dept is also very well funded. It's just not similar to what I studied at Choice A so I'm wary.

 

Things holding me back:

Love School A

PI is pretty well known in field

Not sure who I could/would work with at School B freaks me out 

 

 

I'll just have to meditate on it!

 

How different is the research at School B from the work that you've done at School A? If it's in an entirely different subfield, then I can understand your concern. But if the difference is somewhat less drastic (say, a different approach/set of techniques or a different model system or a different but related type of research question), then I don't think that's such a bad thing. It's good to branch out and expand your skill set a little bit. If the work that you would be doing as a PhD student at School A is essentially more of the exact same stuff that you did as a master's student there, then you really won't learn terribly much. And you might even risk becoming too "overspecialized" in a certain niche, such that you aren't as broadly marketable when you're looking for jobs later in life.

 

As for your other concerns... I know that it can be hard to leave a school that you really like (I loved just about everything about my undergrad institution), but staying at any place too long can hurt you academically for the reasons pointed out earlier. You can still show your love for your alma mater from afar, by becoming active in its alumni association and visiting for homecoming or other events. Maybe you could even go back there as a professor one day! And if School B is a good fit for you (academically and personally), you may come to love it just as much as School A. But you'll never know if you don't leave the nest. Going somewhere unfamiliar is always a risk, but it doesn't sound like School B would be a bad place for you... the location sounds nice and the academics seem sound. The payoff could be huge, both academically and as a personal growing experience.

 

You say that you know the PI at School A very well. If this is true, then you have already benefited from his reputation in your field. Even if you don't do your PhD work with him, he is still in your "professional network" and your connection to him can potentially open doors for you later on in your career. Doing another 4-5 years of research with him won't really change that all that much. I think it would be better for you to expand your network and make even more professional connections at School B! If it is a top 5 program in your field, I'd bet that there are well regarded scholars there as well. Getting to know them as well could open even more doors for you in the future. It's better to have connections with multiple respected professors than it is to rely on one well known professor.

 

I can understand being nervous not knowing whom you'd work with at School B. My understanding, though, is that rotations are very common in neuroscience departments? I may be wrong about that, but that's definitely the case at one of the schools that I applied to (my POI there is cross-listed in the entomology and neuroscience departments, but I applied from the entomology side where rotations are not typical). Anyway, if rotations are the norm, then they probably don't expect you to know for sure which lab you want to work in yet. You'll have a chance to try out 3 or 4 of them during your first year and pick the one that is the best fit for you. You say that there are plenty of labs in your field of interest at B, so chances are that you could find one that you'd enjoy being in.

 

Of course, at the end of the day this is your decision. You know more about both of these programs than we do. Based on the info that you've provided, School B sounds like the best option for you for a lot of reasons. But there may be other things that we don't know about School A that are drawing you towards it. Only you can decide which school is best for you, and don't be afraid to let your "gut instinct" play into your decision a little bit. But do be sure that you don't let your decision be biased by the fact that School A is more familiar to you and therefore the more comfortable option. I am someone who also hates leaving his "comfort zone," but in the past I have been forced to several times and in retrospect it has always been for the best and led to some amazing personal growth. :-)

 

Basically, go with the school that you feel is truly, objectively better for you and your career. I think that School B could really be good for you, but if you think that School A really is the better choice, then that is what you should choose. Just don't be afraid to leave your comfort zone if it will lead to better opportunities.

 

Good luck with your decision! :-)